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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy (Read 351726 times)
Vass
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #342 - 05/15/13 at 22:03:14
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Keano wrote on 05/15/13 at 20:24:02:
You'd think they would do something alright if he is indeed cheating. I'm impressed this thread is still going.

And what exactly are you suggesting?
Beat him to death?.. Or just flog him?..
Bring a doctor to pull out his ear wax?..
Buy a special electronic set to catch him? (Besides, are you going to do it personally? You know, all this...buying and catching..)
Ot just inform the FBI?

Which court is authorized to judge such special cases?
Where are the authorities that can deal with it?

This is the real problem! There's no FIDE anti-cheating commision (but there is an anti-drugs one, I suppose..  Roll Eyes ). No such comissions on the national federations' level either.. Or what can a national federation's ethics commision do in this case?
Any individual is equal to others, you know.. Otherwise, we'll have to wait for Mr Lynch or what?  Huh

Edit: Let me add something: If you didn't understand already...this is a case that can multiply up to an enormous range. And if the chess society can't deal with it, there would be no more chess, at least as such as it is now.
  
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Keano
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #341 - 05/15/13 at 20:24:02
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You'd think they would do something alright if he is indeed cheating. I'm impressed this thread is still going.
  
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fling
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #340 - 05/15/13 at 19:11:17
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TalJechin wrote on 05/15/13 at 15:27:42:
Have they tried any frequency jamming equipment or mobile phone detectors? If he's not a cybernetic organism, and does get the moves sent to him via a receiver in the ear, then that would be an obvious solution to test...  Smiley

Not sure how expensive those gadgets are or if you need permission from the police to use them, though...


Yeah, that is true. They even do that sometimes for exams nowadays.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #339 - 05/15/13 at 15:27:42
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Have they tried any frequency jamming equipment or mobile phone detectors? If he's not a cybernetic organism, and does get the moves sent to him via a receiver in the ear, then that would be an obvious solution to test...  Smiley

Not sure how expensive those gadgets are or if you need permission from the police to use them, though...
  
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piefr1
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #338 - 05/15/13 at 10:40:20
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It's incredible that ivanov's opponents didn't spot anything !

Every 6 seconds it's very fast.... it has to be a camera & a sound device combination.

It's scary for the future of chess tournaments !
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #337 - 05/15/13 at 07:10:46
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Anyway, I admire the way that all the BG chess players are fighting against the fraud..
There was a declaration from almost all the leading chess players in Bulgaria for non-participating in the tournaments where "the phenomenon" would take part, four TV appearances in different BG TV medias where some of their representatives tried to explain the problem of this particular case, Google anti-cheating groups and so on...
Sooner or later, the problem will be solved, I suppose..
  
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Vass
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #336 - 05/15/13 at 06:59:55
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They say the only way is to have a receiver set deep in the ear (which only a doctor can find) and a camera eye somewhere near the board (not necessary to be on his body). An accomplice in the hotel room is needed in this case, of course.  Wink
GM K.Georgiev says that "the phenomenon" made a move every six seconds like a machine. This was on the rapid time control tournament "B.Andonov Memorial". And no motion, no expressions were visible on his face..  Huh
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #335 - 05/15/13 at 01:30:54
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piefr1 wrote on 05/14/13 at 23:07:11:
I don't believe in bionic contact lens... 

How does he cheat?


I would have thought that he had some kind of accomplice, but it's gone on long enough now that I'm honestly surprised that he hasn't been caught yet.  An accomplice would be fairly easy at first (like the way the French team did it), but he's been under some scrutiny after his first big result.  Hhhmmm...

I'm about 99.99% sure that he's cheating (though perhaps he's become more sophisticated now and only cheats at certain moments of a game), and am curious to find how this all plays out.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #334 - 05/14/13 at 23:07:11
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I don't believe in bionic contact lens... 

How does he cheat?
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #333 - 05/14/13 at 21:25:03
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hi,
he won 13 Memorial Paz de ziganda  2 month ago
and 2nd memorial "Bogomil Andonov" 1 month ago against  a bunch of gm... lol

Obviously he seems pretty sure about what he is doing...  Huh
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #332 - 05/12/13 at 13:12:44
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Edited:
Please refrain from personal attacks.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #331 - 05/12/13 at 12:17:40
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Quote:
Edited:
Comment Deleted ~SF


Seriously, human judgement has always been an iffy issue. Look at witness psychology e.g. It is ridiculous that DNA evidence was for a long time not considered better than a witness, even though a witness statement is statistically much worse (about 1000 times IIRC).

And on top of this, humans always have their hidden agenda. Relying on just a panel of players could potentially be a big cause of injustice, just like what happens from time to time e.g. in trials.
« Last Edit: 05/14/13 at 23:39:25 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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MartinC
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #330 - 05/12/13 at 08:05:54
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I can't think why it should be. 

Never mind the losses in accuracy when you can stay stable, you only need to look at the history of alleged bridge cheating to see the effects of stuff like comformation bias.

Actually you can see some of that here in the ways in which quite a few of the people have been behaving. Its very hard to avoid.

They've been cheat detecting online for a while now, based on top three choice matching rates. Seemingly quite sucessfully although of course the really smart cheats might well survive.

The other thing is that actually doing something like this only works as a detterent if you're doing it for basically everyone. That needs something automated with a quick running time. Then once someone hits a suspicious match rate you can get more detailed.
  
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #329 - 05/12/13 at 03:27:59
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Yes, I wrote that actuarial data is superior to human judgement in most fields of assessment and diagnostics. Maybe "most" is an overstatement, but it's an important tendency to be aware of if we want to set up such a panel of human experts.

I think you should back up your point of view better before you throw around words like "ridiculous" and "nonsense".
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Cheating scandals in Croatia & Italy
Reply #328 - 05/12/13 at 03:13:42
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Stigma I think you can't make such generalized statements like that like "statistical/actuarian evidence has proven to be superior than human judgement in most situations", that's nonsense - whether you read it in a book or not... 

I did read all of your post and I know what it says. I'm aware that you can could argue away that what you said wasn't that actuarian data is superior, I'm going by the hugely suggested implications given in the post. If that's not what you meant, then your post didn't say anything at all, literally. 

For every part of it you implied, I think it was a ridiculous point. *shrugs*
  
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