Why would White retreat Qc4? After 15.Ng2 Qd5 16.Bf4 (so there will be no ...e5) Bd7 17.Ne3 White controls the position. If Black exchanges queens the potential vulnerability of White's king is reduced.

Stigma wrote on 11/13/18 at 21:18:02:

Both Ne1 and Bc8 are problem pieces, so I guess White should play 15.Ng2. As Black I'd wish to play Bc8-d7-e8-g6 (or h5) and that will take a lot of moves. So for the time being Black can't do much with those bishops. Black's doubled pawns are rather a long term problem, so as long as White manages to keep Black's queen's bishop passive he/she should be at least somewhat better.
I also think I need to purchase that Pert video.

Leon_Trotsky wrote on 10/24/18 at 21:42:23:


So you're saying Pert doesn't actually mention anything except 10.f3 after 9.Ne1 d5 on the DVD?

I would definitely want to wait a few moves with f3 as White, that is the entire point. Will get back to you on the specific line you give soon.

I bought me DVD for my birthday    

For what I see as a quick look, after 9. Ce1, it goes 9. Ce1 d5 10. f3 dxc4 11. fxe4, with 11. Ae3 Cc6 also analysed.

I just looking at the DVD now, so I can post back later when I look more deeply into how it is.

A quick observation: if Black wants to after 9. Ce1 d5 10. f3, it could transpose to any 10. Ae3 lines where White plays f3 right after.

Regarding the line where White does not want go f3 so quick, e.g 



I had this idea, to solidify the structure from White disintegrating the centre since f3 was delayed. Idea of b3 weakens diagonal, maybe black can play ...b6. What you think ¿

No, I'm somewhat short of money these days. Probably later. But from the table of contents I noticed an annyoing problem: the Réti-English mixture.

1.c4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 d6 4.Nc3 and GM Pert recpmmends e5. Despite seemingly winning a tempo one must realize that Black is playing a Big Clamp with colours reversed. Compare the discussion in the Sicilian section. I don't think 5.e3 Be7 6.Nge2 O-O 7.O-O that attractive for Black. White will stifle all aggression with a well timed f2-f4.
1.Nf3 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.g3 Be7 5.Bg2 O-O 6.O-O d67.b4 does extremely well for White. So 3...d6 (hoping for 4.g3 e5 and the Big Clamp suits Black better with the knight already on f3) 4.d4 e6 5.e3 Be7 6.Bd3 O-O is chapter 4.01 (section 20), assuming that Black plays 6...d6. The game Van den Berg-Burstein, Tel Aviv/Haifa 1958 shows how easily Black can be overrun - the aggression is all White's. I would not be surprised if GM Pert recommends 6...b6 iso 6...d6 but then Black has a move order problem.

GM Williams in his 2003 book circumvented this by playing e6 an Be7 anyway. Swpwnsinf on White's reaction Black may lose a tempo with either ...e5 or ...Bb4 or ...Bc5. I have gone two steps further: 1.c4 f5 2.Nc3 (2.Nf3 Nf6 and 3...e6  a la GM Williams) Nf6 3.g3 e5 and even 1.c4 e5 and 2...f5, which becomes a GPA with colours reversed.

PS: another problem might be 1.Nf3 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.g3 d6 4.d4 e6 5.Bg2 Be7 6.O-O O-O 7.b4 Qe8 8.Nc3, apparently from chapter 3.04 (section 18). Five minutes seems a bit short for this difficult line. After 1.d4 I'd avoid it by playing the Alekhine Variation 6...Ne4 (iso 6...d6) as in model game 2. That's not possible in GM Pert's repertoire if White starts with 1.c4 or 1.Nf3.

After 9. Ce1 d5 10. Ae3, I searched Big Base 2017 and in the past years there is Martinsen-Dahl, Stavanger 2017 where Black played 10...Af6 11. Tc1 Af6 and later a ...b5?!?! but looks to me stragetically bad. Ended up losing.

Other 2017 game is Mihaljov-Stefansson, Stockholm 2017 (is the Classical Dutch popular in Scandinavia ¿  ) also 10...Cc6 11. Tc1 Af6 12. f3 and the question what to do about the centre. 12...dxc4 looks  and 12...exf3 13. Cxf3 how to develop that queenside. Black opted to do 12...dxc4 and lost as well.

After thinking for a few minutes I did not know what to do and turned on the engine for a bit of inspiration if Black tries 12...exf3 13. Cxf3. It gave 13...a5 14. h4 Ta6 as the first line. 

In both games Black were higher rated so that definitely concerns me. 

There is however the game Sbarra-Castaldo, Ivrea 2005 where Black did 12...exf3 13. Cxf3 Ce7 and Black did a slav-like set-up with ...c6 and they drew shortly after. Not much indication of what would be like if they played on.

I do not like the decision to sac pawn on d5 in Sumets-Brynell, Palma 2009 where after 13...Ad7 14. cxd5 exd5 15. Db3 De7. Maybe 13...Ce7 is better.

Leon_Trotsky wrote on 10/04/18 at 18:57:55:


Pert's DVDs are generally good (I have his Slav and Minor Openings ones) , so if you have an interest in the Classical Dutch, I'd probably recommend it.

You're right in that most of the material published about the Classical Dutch has been by Simon Williams. There is also the old Everyman book (by Pinski, was it?).