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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5 (Read 17515 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #16 - 08/20/13 at 13:44:11
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Not that I think it should be the cornerstone of your repertoire, but you haven't lived as a Four Knights player if you haven't ventured the Halloween Gambit (4.Nxe5) at least once in a fairly serious game.  

I think that playing the Vienna and varying with 3.f4, 3.g3, and 3.Bc4 is a nice way to keep things fairly fresh, your opponents guessing, and gives you the option to choose between hyper-aggression and calmer play depending on how you feel.  It's certainly no worse than the Scotch Four Knights.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #15 - 08/20/13 at 13:43:25
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TN wrote on 08/20/13 at 11:53:40:
I think the already suggested Glek System with 2.Nc3 and 3.g3 is a good option; Lu Shanglei is one of the main experts in this system. 

Or you could play the 4.Bc4 Four Knights - I've analysed this system a bit lately and found it's not as easy for Black to equalise as theory suggests. 4...Bc5 5.d3 d6 is a bit dull admittedly but since you're after a simple, low-theory system that shouldn't be a big problem. After 6.Bg5 the critical line is probably 6...Na5 but those positions are a bit more interesting. On the other hand 6...h6 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 8.Nd5 Qd8 9.c3 is a very safe way to play for a small edge. Of course 4...Nxe4 is what you'll face a lot, but White is not worse after 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 Bd6 8.0-0 0-0 9.Re1 and in high-level blitz games has often obtained a small edge. I'm not convinced by Kaufman's 6...Nb4 (with best play you get an equal endgame where I think only White can win) and 7...Ne7 fails to equalise if White plays accurately. You can play this system with Nc3, Nf3 and Bc4 in just about any order and even gives you an answer to the Alekhine in 2.Nc3.


No, this line is completely toothless. Don't go near it. There is a good reason noone plays it. Cos it goes nowhere, fast.

Bc4, get yer lumps out, get hacking.
  
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TN
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #14 - 08/20/13 at 11:53:40
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I think the already suggested Glek System with 2.Nc3 and 3.g3 is a good option; Lu Shanglei is one of the main experts in this system. 

Or you could play the 4.Bc4 Four Knights - I've analysed this system a bit lately and found it's not as easy for Black to equalise as theory suggests. 4...Bc5 5.d3 d6 is a bit dull admittedly but since you're after a simple, low-theory system that shouldn't be a big problem. After 6.Bg5 the critical line is probably 6...Na5 but those positions are a bit more interesting. On the other hand 6...h6 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 8.Nd5 Qd8 9.c3 is a very safe way to play for a small edge. Of course 4...Nxe4 is what you'll face a lot, but White is not worse after 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 Bd6 8.0-0 0-0 9.Re1 and in high-level blitz games has often obtained a small edge. I'm not convinced by Kaufman's 6...Nb4 (with best play you get an equal endgame where I think only White can win) and 7...Ne7 fails to equalise if White plays accurately. You can play this system with Nc3, Nf3 and Bc4 in just about any order and even gives you an answer to the Alekhine in 2.Nc3.
  

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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #13 - 08/20/13 at 02:53:49
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Bibs wrote on 08/20/13 at 00:41:28:

Didn't know that. Which book? Title?


I believe "Winning with 1. e4:  A Complete Opening System" was the one.  I think it also had at least the Closed Sicilian in common with Emms' later book.
  
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #12 - 08/20/13 at 00:41:28
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kylemeister wrote on 08/20/13 at 00:06:46:
Speaking of KGD, I would guess that under some level you might often encounter 2. Bc4 Nf6 3. d3 Nc6 4. Nc3 Bc5 5. f4 d6 6. Nf3 Ng4.
One line that might be a bit ardor-dampening is 3...c6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. 0-0 d6.

Incidentally Andrew Soltis also did a book on such a repertoire.


Didn't know that. Which book? Title?
Soltis could be quite up and down. Truly brilliant Pawn Structure book of course.
  
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #11 - 08/20/13 at 00:06:46
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Speaking of KGD, I would guess that under some level you might often encounter 2. Bc4 Nf6 3. d3 Nc6 4. Nc3 Bc5 5. f4 d6 6. Nf3 Ng4.
One line that might be a bit ardor-dampening is 3...c6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. 0-0 d6.

Incidentally Andrew Soltis also did a book on such a repertoire.
  
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Bibs
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #10 - 08/19/13 at 23:42:58
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SteelyDanIII wrote on 08/19/13 at 22:50:55:
How about the Bishop's Opening (1.e4 e5 2.Bc4)? I learned it from Emms' Attacking with e4 and at my level (Elo 2000) I rarely met opponents who had a prepared variation against it and I would often emerge from the opening with ridiculously good positions.


Agree. Played this for years. Very effective, nicely hacky. This gets a mammoth score sub-2200. Emms' book is excellent. 

I have played the Glek a lot too over the years. Using the two old NIC articles. This is less hacky, more tricky at lower levels, for both white and black.

Yes, Bc4 via Emms text. Supplemented with Shaw's new KG book (Quality Press, 2013) for the KG declined lines. Off you go, get buying, get hacking!
  
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Benoniac
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #9 - 08/19/13 at 23:01:20
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SteelyDanIII wrote on 08/19/13 at 22:50:55:
How about the Bishop's Opening (1.e4 e5 2.Bc4)? I learned it from Emms' Attacking with e4 and at my level (Elo 2000) I rarely met opponents who had a prepared variation against it and I would often emerge from the opening with ridiculously good positions.


I know.

I also thought about it. But somehow I think its a lot more work to be done than the the Glek system. '

Maybe we should wait for the OP author to say something?

Ben
  

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SteelyDanIII
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #8 - 08/19/13 at 22:50:55
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How about the Bishop's Opening (1.e4 e5 2.Bc4)? I learned it from Emms' Attacking with e4 and at my level (Elo 2000) I rarely met opponents who had a prepared variation against it and I would often emerge from the opening with ridiculously good positions.
  
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Benoniac
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #7 - 08/19/13 at 21:03:33
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kylemeister wrote on 08/19/13 at 20:46:13:
I have trouble regarding such things as the Glek and the g3 Vienna as "more aggressive."  (Here I'm reminded of IM Anthony Saidy, circa 40 years ago, imagining the thoughts of his opponent Krzysztof Pytel after 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3:  "First he bluffs me with this 'romantic' opening, then he plays like Smyslov and Benko.")


Well your not him. 
I did my best to try to imagine the issue/problem that  Tibor tried to explain in his OP.  I guess he is tired with the 4 knights. And he did underline that finding time to openig theory was a bit of of problem. Moreover he mention that a piece set up without a normal white adv also was fine. Therefore I sided with TalJehins suggstion of the Glek system
as an offer to what he may have searching for. 

I think its a wise choice for Tibor. I meant it well. If its more aggressive or not its really up to him, I guess. 

Ben
  

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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #6 - 08/19/13 at 20:46:13
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I have trouble regarding such things as the Glek and the g3 Vienna as "more aggressive."  (Here I'm reminded of IM Anthony Saidy, circa 40 years ago, imagining the thoughts of his opponent Krzysztof Pytel after 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3:  "First he bluffs me with this 'romantic' opening, then he plays like Smyslov and Benko.")
  
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #5 - 08/19/13 at 20:16:21
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I will side on TalJehin on this. According to your OP, especially the move order with: 1.e4, 2.Nc3, 3.g3 and so on probably will interest you. 

There is quite recent coverage on this variation in : "New in chess yearbook", 101 and 102 by A Finkel, wich could be a good starting point.

Ben 

  

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Bibs
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #4 - 08/19/13 at 07:53:29
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chandrashekharkoravi wrote on 08/19/13 at 05:15:14:
How about scotch gambit...I recommend to watch roman videos for scotch gambit


Well, his videos have been discussed before. There would be an offbeat charm to his unkempt appearance and habit of missing out signiificant lines for the opponent at every chance. If they were free and on YouTube. But as a chess 'product' for sale, they are less appealing.

If you listen very carefully you can hear a dog-on-a-string, just out of the picture.
  
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #3 - 08/19/13 at 05:15:14
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How about scotch gambit...I recommend to watch roman videos for scotch gambit
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Looking for an alternative to play against 1.e4 e5
Reply #2 - 08/18/13 at 21:05:40
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I'd say try the Vienna and experiment with different options like 3.g3, 3.Bc4, 3.f4, etc.
  
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