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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black! (Read 20706 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #27 - 07/28/14 at 16:54:16
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najdorfslayer wrote on 07/28/14 at 14:36:04:
At club level the Schliemann is lethal!!


It is very lethal at clublevel but when the white players know the opponet plays Jänish gambit, black often gets a bad position if white has done hes homework.

First time I met Jänish as white I lost terrible in Nc3 line agianst a opponet much heigher rated than me. After that game I made prepartions in d3 line and  when I met that player again I ended up in a much better posiiton. He dared to repeat the Jänish in some more games(blitz or rapid)  after that and he ended up even worse in each game and lost game after game.  Now he does not play Jänish against me anymore in standardtimes game but plays other Ruy Lopez lines. But in team matches hes still plays the Jänish and also against other club members who are not booked up.
  
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najdorfslayer
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #26 - 07/28/14 at 14:36:04
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At club level the Schliemann is lethal!!
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #25 - 01/02/14 at 14:22:20
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play the nf6 Marshall it gives the best winning chances and is light on theory.
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #24 - 12/06/13 at 05:11:40
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I've decided to focus on the Archangel (original Archangel with 6...Bb7) and Berlin. I feel these lines offer both solidity and extreme activity (in certain lines).
  
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #23 - 12/04/13 at 05:14:29
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 11/17/13 at 09:47:44:
There are several lines against the Ruy Lopez that I like to play, but I can't decide on one! The lines I'm interested in are the Berlin, Breyer, Archangel, and Graf. Does anyone else here play any of these lines? Which one do you like better and why?


I considered this exact set of potential lines (but I also dabbled with the idea of the Modern Steinitz and Cozio). Of the lot, I stuck with the Graf---it's sound, unbalancing, and less popular than the Breyer. The imbalance lasts right through to the endgame, so there's plenty of scope for outplaying lower rated players.

Overall, I'd stick with the closed, because it is easier to add in new lines to a closed Lopez repertoire. E.g. if you start with the Graf, you might add in the original Keres easily (12…cxd4 instead of Graf's 12…exd4), or the Gajewski lines (10…d5!?), and you land at these lines without having to learn any new sidelines. Plus, adding in other closed lines like the Breyer will also be much less work.

Mind you, this does mean that you have to deal with more white deviations. But learning to handle these effectively can only be good for one's game.
  
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #22 - 11/26/13 at 02:04:03
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I'm in much the same boat as the OP. I've played 1...e5 off an on over the past decade, with experience in the Moeller, Zaitsev, Breyer, Cozio, and a couple of S.O.S. lines. I'm thinking of returning to 1...e5 for the foreseeable future, and it's a challenge locking down a full-time defense. I like the looks of the Archangel, with similar themes to the Moeller. I've also been telling myself I should learn the Berlin, if not for the sole benefit of its chess educational value. Now may be a better time than ever. the 5.Re1 lines were always uninteresting to me in the past. Since books like Cox's have come out maybe that'll be the way to go.

From the standpoint of competing at 2300 level, needing to play for wins against 1900-2200 opposition while having a reliable setup against 2200-2400, I get the impression that the Berlin would be the better way to go.
  
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #21 - 11/25/13 at 17:42:17
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And don't forget Carlsen's knight manoeuvre 13 ...Nb8 and 14 ...Nbd7 from game 5! It shows how important it is to know about standard plans.
  
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #20 - 11/25/13 at 10:48:18
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JEH wrote on 11/17/13 at 11:20:15:
I reckon once you've got a few of those in Megabase, all your opponents will go d3 or some kind of anti-Marshall at you 


For many years, I've wondered whether it was worth provoking an Anti-Marshall by playing 0-0 before d6. The premise is that the Anti-Marshall lines are less forcing, thereby giving Black a wider choice of moves or a better chance of going wrong.

These days, d3 is played before you get anywhere near threatening a Marshall, so do you stay in solid territory by playing Be7, or try to be more active with Bc5? If White plays the d3 system against Be7 with c3, then the advance d3 to d4 is always on the cards, so Black will still need to know the defensive ideas and formations associated with the names of Chigorin, Breyer, Keres, Smyslov, Zaitsev etc.

In a recent game, I even managed to reach a traditional Chigorin position from the Bishop's Opening.

1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. Nf3 Be7 4. 0-0 Nf6 5. Re1 0-0 6. c3 d6 7. h3 Na5 8. Bb5 a6 9. Ba4 b5 10. Bc2 c5 11. d4 Qc7
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #19 - 11/24/13 at 16:16:15
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JonathanB wrote on 11/23/13 at 19:06:00:
kylemeister wrote on 11/23/13 at 15:28:48:
Don't forget the repetition draw White can go for with 5. d4 Nd6 6. de Nxb5 7. a4 ...


Well Black has choices there, but anyway from a practical perspective, this isn't a problem anyway (in my experience, at least).


Yes, Black has several different ways to play if he wants to avoid that draw. It's nice to know Black can accept the draw offer if he wants or play for a win.   Smiley
  
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #18 - 11/23/13 at 19:06:00
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kylemeister wrote on 11/23/13 at 15:28:48:
Don't forget the repetition draw White can go for with 5. d4 Nd6 6. de Nxb5 7. a4 ...


Well Black has choices there, but anyway from a practical perspective, this isn't a problem anyway (in my experience, at least).
  

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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #17 - 11/23/13 at 15:28:48
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Don't forget the repetition draw White can go for with 5. d4 Nd6 6. de Nxb5 7. a4 ...
  
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #16 - 11/23/13 at 14:28:20
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MartinC wrote on 11/23/13 at 11:27:31:
It isn't even that automatically drawish if white tries to play d5 before black does.


Indeed, after 5.Re1 Nd6 6.Nxe5 Be7 7.Bf1 Nf5 there's plenty of scope for either side to play for a win. Just look at Carlsen's games for proof. From a practical viewpoint Black's even better off in the 7.Bf1 system as he can choose between keeping the pieces on the board and playing for a win with 7...Nf5 or steering the game towards a draw with 7...Nxe5 (so long as he is well prepared). Meanwhile the 7.Bd3 variation is hardly a problem for a player needing a win with Black.
  

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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #15 - 11/23/13 at 11:27:31
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It isn't even that automatically drawish if white tries to play d5 before black does.
  
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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #14 - 11/23/13 at 07:42:24
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lnn2 wrote on 11/23/13 at 03:02:04:
... the drawish Re1 line is very likely to occur at the amateur level ....


This is not my experience after several years of playing the Berlin against opponents from 1900 to 2200.
  

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Re: Can't Decide Which Line To Play As Black!
Reply #13 - 11/23/13 at 03:02:04
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My favourite is the Berlin - as of yesterday this dethroned two world champions. However the drawish Re1 line is very likely to occur at the amateur level (more likely to occur than 5. Qe2 in the Petroff for example). So the Berlin should be paired with another opening for must-win occasions. On the bright side there isn't much to memorise. Lysyj and Cox books are fantastic.

Dont like Classical Berlin (4... Bc5) as much - never liked the lines where White puts the bishop on g5 and Black needs to break the pin with h6 and g5.  e.g. 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Bc5 5. c3 O-O 6. d4 Bb6 7. Bg5 h6 8. Bh4 d6 9. Qd3 g5 10. Bg3 Nh5 11. Na3 exd4 12. cxd4 f5 13. exf5 Bxf5 14. Qc4+ Kh8 15. Bxc6 bxc6 16. Qxc6, Caruana-PH Nielsen 2009. This might be good for Black but I wouldn't trust my aging memory.
  
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