I'm a big fan of the Berlin. It's particularly cool that the top 3 (Carlsen, Aronian and Kramnik (I rate Kramnik ahead of Aronian regardless of rating)) employ it regularly, so there's plenty of WCh calibre games to learn from.

Viking wrote on 11/17/13 at 21:03:23:

After 3...Nge7
"4.Nc3 is very unpleasant for Black ... and the main reason why I have at some stage quit playing the Cozio with Black."
Ivan Sokolov in  Ruy Lopez Revisited

i.e. 4...g6 5.d4! exd4 6.Nd5! is not much fun for Black
or 4...d6 5.d4 Bd7 and then 6.Bc4, 6.dxe5 and 6.d5 all lead to advantage to White according to Sokolov

TN wrote on 11/17/13 at 13:40:47:


Occult?!   


I agree with the painful losses thing.  I've had a couple of awful defeats with The Wall.  Which is not to say, I actually understand it now.  On the upside, my opponents don't either.  I don't think I've ever left the opening worse - limited sample size admittedly - and I've quite often got a (small) advantage out of the opening.

If you intend to play 4..Nge7, why not play 3..Nge7? (unless you like to face the exchange of course). Are there any reason not to play 3..Nge7 followed by 4..a6 if you want to play the aronian variation

My own preference would be Marshall, Archangel, or Breyer. The Berlin I know is fascinating but instead of the main-line White has the Re1 and Nxe5 line, where he plays it safe. Of course if you like it go for it!!

BobbyDigital80 wrote on 11/17/13 at 09:47:44:


It doesn't particularly matter, since in many of your games you won't get to play your special system: your opponents will deviate first, such as with an early d3. However I'd suggest that you just pick one and start playing it. You'll then remember and understand the theory a lot better after experiencing the line for yourself first. All of the systems you mentioned can bring you excellent results if you specialise in the typical middlegames. 

The Breyer has the advantage of being very solid yet flexible enough that you can play a different sub-variation easily to avoid possible preparation. The Graf is unfashionable meaning your opponents are less likely to know how to meet it, but you absolutely have to know what you're doing or you risk getting crushed. The Archangel has the plus of being the most active, and gives you an easy system against the d3 Lopez, but the theory is developing quite quickly, and it's not so easy to win against a 7.Nxe5 player bent on drawing the game. Finally the Berlin is perhaps the most solid and occult of the four, but you'll probably need to have quite a few painful losses before you really understand it. But when you do, it's a weapon that can defeat even a reigning World Champion. Plus it is very easy to expand your repertoire within the Berlin.

If I had to pick one to recommend I'd suggest the Archangel, because it is the most active line. 

There are several lines against the Ruy Lopez that I like to play, but I can't decide on one! The lines I'm interested in are the Berlin, Breyer, Archangel, and Graf. Does anyone else here play any of these lines? Which one do you like better and why?