ChessPub Forum - Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?!

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Question: Busted or not?

Busted

It is alright, I guess...

Still a very good line

« Created by: TheDragon on: 04/27/14 at 13:57:49 »

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Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! (Read 23901 times)

gewgaw God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 687 Location: europe Joined: 09/09/04	Re: Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! Reply #7 - 04/27/14 at 21:01:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	I've Delchev's book,too and I never really liked the odd queen maneuver qd8-c7-d7-e8, so I switched to 10. ...b6 (e.g. Topalov - Anand wch). Did you analyse 14.qc2 na5,too - looks like a typical long term play against the splitted a/c pawns, but maybe there is something concrete for white?!

	The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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TheDragon YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 17 Joined: 04/27/14	Re: Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! Reply #6 - 04/27/14 at 20:03:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	TheDragon wrote on 04/27/14 at 13:30:09: I also analysed earlier deviations, such as 12...Be5, which is a little better but still not very good. That is the line you are speaking of. It is played and is playable, but it is far from ideal. I also looked at the rare continuation 11...e6 mentioned in 'The Safest Grunfeld' and it works quite well. But is it really that bad, that Black has to avoid on of the 7.Bc4 mainlines? Guys, also please post your reasons and some analysis following your choice on the poll. Thanks, TheDragon


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! Reply #5 - 04/27/14 at 18:30:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Glenn Snow wrote on 04/27/14 at 18:16:39: Wow, has the move held up? The article was in 2010 (using games in which it was played by the likes of Svidler and Morozevich); I have an impression that things haven't been going well for Black since then.


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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! Reply #4 - 04/27/14 at 18:16:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	kylemeister wrote on 04/27/14 at 18:10:28: Glenn Snow wrote on 04/27/14 at 18:07:06: I started looking at your analysis with Houdini and it came up with a move earlier that looks ridiculous to my human eyes but who knows. After, 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 O-O 9. O-O Nc6 10. Be3 Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4, it suggests 12...Be5 which I'd guess has never been tested. I believe there was a Yearbook article about it a few years ago. Wow, has the move held up?


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kylemeister God Member Offline Posts: 4989 Location: USA Joined: 10/24/05	Re: Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! Reply #3 - 04/27/14 at 18:10:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	Glenn Snow wrote on 04/27/14 at 18:07:06: I started looking at your analysis with Houdini and it came up with a move earlier that looks ridiculous to my human eyes but who knows. After, 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 O-O 9. O-O Nc6 10. Be3 Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4, it suggests 12...Be5 which I'd guess has never been tested. I believe there was a Yearbook article about it a few years ago.


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Glenn Snow God Member Offline Posts: 1720 Location: Franklin Joined: 09/27/03 Gender:	Re: Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! Reply #2 - 04/27/14 at 18:07:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	I started looking at your analysis with Houdini and it came up with a move earlier that looks ridiculous to my human eyes but who knows. After, 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 O-O 9. O-O Nc6 10. Be3 Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4, it suggests 12...Be5 which I'd guess has never been tested.


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TheDragon YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 17 Joined: 04/27/14	Re: Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! Reply #1 - 04/27/14 at 13:57:49	Post Tools	Print Post
	I have attached a poll.


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TheDragon YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 17 Joined: 04/27/14	Grunfeld 7.Bc4 Line 10...Qc7 Out of Business?! 04/27/14 at 13:30:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hello there. I have been going through The Safest Grunfeld by Delchev and Agrest and I think it really is a fantastic book so far. I have been typing it in, engine-checking and coming up with improvements. Most of the improvements so far have been minor, but I think I have actually run into a problem which ruins the whole line for me. I personally have that you prove me wrong. The line that I speak of is: 1.d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 0-0 9.0-0 Nc6 10.Be3 Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4 Qd7 13.dxc5 Qe8 and now the move is 14.Qc2. This line is basically passed off in 'The Safest Grunfeld' and 'Chess Developments: The Grunfeld' as harmless, but I think it is pretty killer actually. Both books missed a simple idea and gave the line as 14...Bd7 15. Rfd1 Rac8 with good play based on ...Na5. Download game in pgn format To be completely honest, the more and more I analyse the more hope I lose. I also analysed earlier deviations, such as 12...Be5, which is a little better but still not very good. Also please note that this is just a stub of my analysis - a condensed version. So, is it just me or will I have to switch systems? I hope you prove me wrong, but I am pretty sure this analysis is accurate. Any improvements for Black are greatly appreciated Thanks.


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