Latest Updates:
Poll
Poll closed Question: Who's going to win?
bars   pie
*** This poll has now closed ***


Carlsen +1    
  16 (17.6%)
Carlsen +2    
  41 (45.1%)
Carlsen +3    
  7 (7.7%)
Carlsen +4 or higher    
  0 (0.0%)
Anand +1    
  8 (8.8%)
Anand +2    
  5 (5.5%)
Anand +3    
  0 (0.0%)
Anand +4 or higher    
  0 (0.0%)
Draw and Carlsen wins tiebreaks    
  7 (7.7%)
Draw and Anand wins tiebreaks    
  0 (0.0%)
Carlsen wins but not sure on score    
  6 (6.6%)
Anand wins but not sure on score    
  1 (1.1%)




Total votes: 91
« Created by: LostTactic on: 11/04/14 at 18:04:29 »
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 27
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship (Read 101549 times)
Paul Brondal
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 106
Location: Denmark
Joined: 05/20/14
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #222 - 11/17/14 at 11:58:19
Post Tools
"It's always easy to criticize with an engine running; obviously neither player was perfect, but I maintain that Carlsen completely outplayed Anand in game 6."

In the newest issue of NIC a quite interesting article discusses kibitzers. It tells how often people with their engines moan about bad moves. I totally agree with that view but must admit that not seeing Nxe5 came as a big surprise to me. It would be the first choice in blitz but maybe Anand was so deeply concentrated on some strategic ideas that the tactical radar was turned off...   
 

 
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2534
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #221 - 11/17/14 at 03:52:38
Post Tools
PANFR wrote on 11/16/14 at 21:58:47:

You got to be joking. 29.Ke1? is an extremely stupid move, which throws away the win. Anand just had to stay calm, and meet 30.Bc1 with 30...Rhd8, when he has very few problems, if any. Nor admitting the mistake at move 29 works, since after 29.Ke1? Rd7 30. Ke2 Rhd8 31.Bxh6 Rh8 black has very good counterplay, mainly because Carlsen has foolishly allowed this little thing to reach a3, and create long-term problems to white.
White just had to stop this stupid pawn at a4, carefully transfer the king to e2, and then after covering g2 he could at last pick the h6 pawn. Carlsen played the position poorly, actually I am amazed about his play- way below his usual level, I can only attribute it to anxiousness. But fortunately for him, Vishy blundered everything in this game.


I'm not joking; I could be wrong, but I'm not joking.  

In any case 29.Ke1 Rd7 30.Kf2!? is perhaps an improvement, but I think that White is just following the old rule "do not hurry" here.  30.Bc1 is very natural of course, and after 30...Rhd8 White has a lot better moves than taking a pawn that is doomed anyway.  31.Ke2 still looks good for White, as does 31.f4.  

The immediate 29.Bc1 was probably most accurate though, but I don't blame Carlsen for taking his time and maybe wanting to work some things out on Anand's clock.

It's always easy to criticize with an engine running; obviously neither player was perfect, but I maintain that Carlsen completely outplayed Anand in game 6. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IsaVulpes
Senior Member
****
Offline


No.

Posts: 345
Joined: 12/09/07
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #220 - 11/16/14 at 23:18:31
Post Tools
Quote:
White just had to stop this stupid pawn at a4

There was no time to do that. I'm sure Anand would have been quite happy with 27.a3 ..

I don't think it's "fair" to critically look at the moves of either player after the blunder. It's quite clear that the both of them were shaken to the core and couldn't just put it behind themselves; Anand got the worse end of the stick and completely fell apart. 

Until the 26th, Carlsen's play looked like Carlsen to me.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
PANFR
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 256
Location: Greece
Joined: 10/31/11
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #219 - 11/16/14 at 21:58:47
Post Tools
ErictheRed wrote on 11/16/14 at 21:29:16:
I think Carlsen's handling of the game (minus the 26th move) was extremely direct, concrete, confident, and accurate.  I don't know why anyone would call it hesitant--because he repeated moves a couple of times?  That's just good technique.



You got to be joking. 29.Ke1? is an extremely stupid move, which throws away the win. Anand just had to stay calm, and meet 30.Bc1 with 30...Rhd8, when he has very few problems, if any. Nor admitting the mistake at move 29 works, since after 29.Ke1? Rd7 30. Ke2 Rhd8 31.Bxh6 Rh8 black has very good counterplay, mainly because Carlsen has foolishly allowed this little thing to reach a3, and create long-term problems to white.
White just had to stop this stupid pawn at a4, carefully transfer the king to e2, and then after covering g2 he could at last pick the h6 pawn. Carlsen played the position poorly, actually I am amazed about his play- way below his usual level, I can only attribute it to anxiousness. But fortunately for him, Vishy blundered everything in this game.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #218 - 11/16/14 at 21:58:40
Post Tools
ErictheRed wrote on 11/16/14 at 21:29:16:
I think Carlsen's handling of the game (minus the 26th move) was extremely direct, concrete, confident, and accurate.  I don't know why anyone would call it hesitant--because he repeated moves a couple of times?  That's just good technique.


No, nothing to do with repeating moves, he just lacked confidence and direction the whole game. It was not characteristic.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RoleyPoley
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 746
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #217 - 11/16/14 at 21:50:24
Post Tools
I'm very much a tactical player and love watching/playing games that simply explode after a piece sac...but its fast becoming a guilty pleasure that i have to admit, i am in awe of Carlsen's play and am really enjoying his games.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2534
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #216 - 11/16/14 at 21:29:16
Post Tools
I think Carlsen's handling of the game (minus the 26th move) was extremely direct, concrete, confident, and accurate.  I don't know why anyone would call it hesitant--because he repeated moves a couple of times?  That's just good technique.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RoleyPoley
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 746
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #215 - 11/16/14 at 21:18:45
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 11/16/14 at 17:33:38:
gewgaw wrote on 11/16/14 at 15:38:47:
Keano wrote on 11/16/14 at 11:32:08:
Viking - as Kasparov said about game 6 - the game was effectively over after the opening. He had the position after Bf4 followed by h4 in his files, Kramnik was also well aware of the line.

For me it is clear Carlsen is not himself here, thats why I give Anand a great chance. The funny thing about that game is that, even though Carlsen won it, it may have affected his confidence a lot more than Anand's. Not sure any of the so-called expert commentators have picked up on this, no doubt someone has.


Strange assessment. Anand is addicted to his opening knowledge, if it works, he can complete with Carlsen, otherwise he has to suffer and is on the brink of a loss. Carlsen was relived after the game, Anand stunned and devasted, so I wouldn't be surprised, if Carlsen wins the next game, too.


As I said the position out of the opening was awful for Black, but more revealing was Carlsens hesitant handling of it, it was not up to Carlsen standard, apart from the blunder which was simply amazing.

I think thats an objective assesment, there is a lot of layman psychology going on here by some but we can only go on the facts, the moves are there to see.

It was a strange and awful game, but I don't think it will change the momentum of the match.


Hesitant? in what way? It looked like he handled it in a fairly straightforward way. Until he played Bd1, i think commentators were largely in agreement with his moves and complimenting on him picking the strongest moves available to achieve his aims.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #214 - 11/16/14 at 17:33:38
Post Tools
gewgaw wrote on 11/16/14 at 15:38:47:
Keano wrote on 11/16/14 at 11:32:08:
Viking - as Kasparov said about game 6 - the game was effectively over after the opening. He had the position after Bf4 followed by h4 in his files, Kramnik was also well aware of the line.

For me it is clear Carlsen is not himself here, thats why I give Anand a great chance. The funny thing about that game is that, even though Carlsen won it, it may have affected his confidence a lot more than Anand's. Not sure any of the so-called expert commentators have picked up on this, no doubt someone has.


Strange assessment. Anand is addicted to his opening knowledge, if it works, he can complete with Carlsen, otherwise he has to suffer and is on the brink of a loss. Carlsen was relived after the game, Anand stunned and devasted, so I wouldn't be surprised, if Carlsen wins the next game, too.


As I said the position out of the opening was awful for Black, but more revealing was Carlsens hesitant handling of it, it was not up to Carlsen standard, apart from the blunder which was simply amazing.

I think thats an objective assesment, there is a lot of layman psychology going on here by some but we can only go on the facts, the moves are there to see.

It was a strange and awful game, but I don't think it will change the momentum of the match.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gewgaw
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 687
Location: europe
Joined: 09/09/04
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #213 - 11/16/14 at 15:38:47
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 11/16/14 at 11:32:08:
Viking - as Kasparov said about game 6 - the game was effectively over after the opening. He had the position after Bf4 followed by h4 in his files, Kramnik was also well aware of the line.

For me it is clear Carlsen is not himself here, thats why I give Anand a great chance. The funny thing about that game is that, even though Carlsen won it, it may have affected his confidence a lot more than Anand's. Not sure any of the so-called expert commentators have picked up on this, no doubt someone has.


Strange assessment. Anand is addicted to his opening knowledge, if it works, he can complete with Carlsen, otherwise he has to suffer and is on the brink of a loss. Carlsen was relived after the game, Anand stunned and devasted, so I wouldn't be surprised, if Carlsen wins the next game, too.
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2534
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #212 - 11/16/14 at 15:13:07
Post Tools
It's true that Anand missed 26...Nxe5, but I still think that his whole conceptual idea (pushing the a-pawn) was wrong and would likely have lost anyway.  He was getting outplayed.   

I spent a few hours looking at this game with two other USCF 2300 players and a 2100 player, and we all thought that Anand's plan of pushing the pawn to a3 should have lost for Black provided that White didn't blunder.  For whatever that's worth (which is not very much, and we weren't using an engine as we were having a sort of training session/exchange of ideas).   

Anand missed his single, one-move chance to probably win; otherwise he was completely outplayed.  It is concerning for both players (in different ways) that this 26...Nxe5 was missed, of course.

And for the record I don't "brush aside psychology" in the sport, I'd just prefer the word were used accurately.  "Match psychology" does not mean "match strategy," and most people mean the latter when they write the former.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #211 - 11/16/14 at 11:32:08
Post Tools
Viking - as Kasparov said about game 6 - the game was effectively over after the opening. He had the position after Bf4 followed by h4 in his files, Kramnik was also well aware of the line.

For me it is clear Carlsen is not himself here, thats why I give Anand a great chance. The funny thing about that game is that, even though Carlsen won it, it may have affected his confidence a lot more than Anand's. Not sure any of the so-called expert commentators have picked up on this, no doubt someone has.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #210 - 11/16/14 at 09:58:06
Post Tools
Anand certainly also deserved to loose game 6. Yes, he was given a gift by Carlsen, which he obviously should have accepted and yes he should be angry with himself for missing that - but the game overall he deserved to loose.

Anand is still the guy that blew carlsen off the board in game 3 and has pressed hard with white. I doubt the match is "over". 

In order for Anand for winning this match he is dependant to catch Carlsen with his clearly superior openingprepariation. If Carlsen survives the openings he will defend the title.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LostTactic
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 336
Joined: 02/19/11
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #209 - 11/16/14 at 06:06:02
Post Tools
Seth_Xoma wrote on 11/16/14 at 05:22:00:
Anand's losses in game 2 and 6 are not equal.

In game 2, it would be (and was) quite easy to shrug it off. Vishy was under pressure whole game, given no real chances and the game was capped off by a blunder which only hastened the end.

Missing ...Nxe5 is game 6 can't be brushed aside so easily. He blew it and he knows it. 

Also, unlike the loss in game 2, he will NOT have white next game. If he loses that as well, R.I.P.


I agree completely. 

In game 2 Anand defended badly and deserved to lose, he pretty much said that himself during the press conference for that game. 

In game 6 he looked like a broken man during the press conference. I think those that brush aside psychology in sport, especially 1 vs 1 sports like chess really don't understand the mental strains the players are going through. The fact there's sports psychologists and some of the best sportsmen in the world use them regularly, is a glaring indicator of the importance of psychology. 

In chess Topalov is a great modern example; over the last several years he suffered a kind of breakdown after losing in the WCh match to Anand. He then began seeing a sports psychologist to get him back into the right frame of mind to compete, now he's back up there in the top 5 comfortably. 

Outside of chess there's no better example than the Snooker player Ronnie O'Sullivan, suffers from major psychological problems and also depression yet with the help of Steve Peters is still able to compete at the highest level.

Going back to this match Anand obviously has to hold game 7. If he loses that game the match is over. It's hard to predict what he might play, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Caro-Kann tbh. If he manages to draw he must put everything he has left in the tank into game 8, I would assume they have something prepared in the 4.f3 Nimzo, if not there the Catalan. If he can strike back with his next White it could turn the match backk on his head again. Most important is he comes into game 7 with a clear and objective mind thinking only about the task at hand. I would hope his team and his wife spent the hours after game 6 consoling him and today they will get back to doing some serious preparation to make sure he holds game 7.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seth_Xoma
God Member
*****
Offline


FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381)

Posts: 558
Location: Lansing
Joined: 11/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #208 - 11/16/14 at 05:22:00
Post Tools
Anand's losses in game 2 and 6 are not equal.

In game 2, it would be (and was) quite easy to shrug it off. Vishy was under pressure whole game, given no real chances and the game was capped off by a blunder which only hastened the end.

Missing ...Nxe5 is game 6 can't be brushed aside so easily. He blew it and he knows it. 

Also, unlike the loss in game 2, he will NOT have white next game. If he loses that as well, R.I.P.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 27
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo