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Poll closed Question: Who's going to win?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Carlsen +1    
  16 (17.6%)
Carlsen +2    
  41 (45.1%)
Carlsen +3    
  7 (7.7%)
Carlsen +4 or higher    
  0 (0.0%)
Anand +1    
  8 (8.8%)
Anand +2    
  5 (5.5%)
Anand +3    
  0 (0.0%)
Anand +4 or higher    
  0 (0.0%)
Draw and Carlsen wins tiebreaks    
  7 (7.7%)
Draw and Anand wins tiebreaks    
  0 (0.0%)
Carlsen wins but not sure on score    
  6 (6.6%)
Anand wins but not sure on score    
  1 (1.1%)




Total votes: 91
« Created by: LostTactic on: 11/04/14 at 18:04:29 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship (Read 101143 times)
LostTactic
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #387 - 11/25/14 at 12:50:11
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There's an interesting interview on chess24 where Caruana talks about the WCh match and other stuff: https://chess24.com/en/read/news/caruana-on-carlsen-anand-and-much-more
  
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tipau
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #386 - 11/25/14 at 11:17:45
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Quote:
Levon Aronian: Ok, I thought that Vishy was better prepared this time, but it’s difficult for him still to play against Magnus, because Magnus is just a player of a different generation. After all, chess advances, and if you look at it, the greatest players in the world... I consider Kasparov to be the greatest player in the world, but whenever I see him analysing with players of the modern era I can see that his understanding is very different. It’s difficult even for the greatest players in the world… if you had Michael Jordan playing with current players he also wouldn’t be the greatest, probably.


This reminds me of something Nakamura said a while ago about Kramnik. If I remember right he said he struggled against the new generation because they defend better than he expects. He used the endgame Carlsen defended in London a few years ago as a case where Kramnik was surprised by superb defence, which Naka claimed was routine by today's standards. Not that my opinion is worth much but it sounded like complete codswallop to me...

Kasparov dominated chess for 20 years over players like Anand, Kramnik, Topalov, Gelfand etc. Considering they're still all right up there it's a bit strange implying that chess has moved on to the extent that he wouldn't be able to keep up anymore.
  

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MartinC
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #385 - 11/25/14 at 08:56:00
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I imagine it very much depends Smiley 

Must be quite possible they wanted Adams around simply to have a 'precomputer' opinion about things! Good chance of it being relatively close to Anand's instincts if nothing else.

I'd be amazed if the computer generation aren't playing at least a bit differently. Not at all sure if its better in and of itself, as so many of the previous generation are still massively strong.
  
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #384 - 11/25/14 at 00:20:00
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What if Adams only helped with Magnus' white repertoire ? Aren't seconds supposed to specialize in some way during these matches ?
  

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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #383 - 11/24/14 at 23:27:41
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tipau wrote on 11/24/14 at 18:02:10:
On the other hand it makes Carlsen's loss in game 3 seem even weirder, as Anand simply followed an Aronian-Adams game before allowing an improvement Adams must have been aware of...


I too wonder about this …... In view of the revelation of Mickey Adams as second, what really happened in Game 3? Did Mickey Adams really think Black can hold the draw? Or did Magnus have a memory lapse? What other possible explanations?
We may have to wait until Magnus publishes his auto-biography to know the full story …... Smiley Wink Tongue
  

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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #382 - 11/24/14 at 23:06:44
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Re Gary Lane, he was formerly an English junior of the same generation as Michael Adams who is now residing in Australia and represents Australia and also chess author/writer columnist with Chess cafe.
Not so strange if he was given an exclusive …..
  

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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #381 - 11/24/14 at 23:02:15
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All revealed (http://www.arcticsec.no/index.php?blog_id=282&button=blog&main_image=35). Official seconds as already dislcosed: PH Nielsen, JL Hammer, Michael Adams (logical choice in view of the similarity in style of play but query whether that is actually optimal choice? i.e. from Botvinnik's perspective preparing for opponents (and also trite advice of working on weaknesses not on strengths??))

Others who assisted include Garry Kasparov, Ian Nepomniatchi and Vladimir Potkin and lastly Pavel Eljanov who assisted during Chennai 2013.

Two further comments: 1) I find it interesting (and puzzling) that there are GMs (Ben Finegold is one) and ChessPubbers (scrolling through this thread reveals who) who considered Anand to be favourite to win and better player (or close to winning) even after the Match or during the Match.
2) The most interesting comments and evaluation (also in sense it provides further food for thought and discussion) are GM Levon Aronian's:(https://chess24.com/en/read/news/grandmaster-reaction-to-magnus-carlsen-s-victor...):
Comment A:
Quote:
Levon Aronian: Ok, I thought that Vishy was better prepared this time, but it’s difficult for him still to play against Magnus, because Magnus is just a player of a different generation. After all, chess advances, and if you look at it, the greatest players in the world... I consider Kasparov to be the greatest player in the world, but whenever I see him analysing with players of the modern era I can see that his understanding is very different. It’s difficult even for the greatest players in the world… if you had Michael Jordan playing with current players he also wouldn’t be the greatest, probably.

Chicago fans are screaming right now!

The game develops, so that’s why I thought it would be difficult for him to fight with Magnus. History shows he has a bad score against players of this generation.


Comment B:
Quote:
And what do you think about the quality of the match itself?

It was pretty good, because in the World Championship match there is no quality. I’ve never seen a World Championship match with quality games. It’s very rare.
Really?

Of course it’s two of the best players playing against each other, but they’re overprepared, they work so much so they commit easy mistakes during the game because they’re not fresh. I don’t think I ever saw a really, really good game during a World Championship match.

A really good game or match?

A really good game with both players playing extremely well, like it would happen in a regular tournament.

Are you saying we should just throw away the World Championship?

No, I’m not saying that. I’m just saying that you can’t really expect those players who have so much pressure on them to perform their best.


Perhaps we can have a constructive discussion on these two statements!?!

Starting off:
Comment A: This is obviously an observation that ties in with the known observation of the computer generation, players who grew up and improved their chess playing against (and analysing with) chess engines. Also the corollary that these younger (usually!) players do not know the classics as well as the Anand-Gelfand-Kramink generation. (Gelfand is a well-known example of promoting the study of Rubenstein's games. Will be interesting to see what he says in the forthcoming book to be published by Quality Chess with Jacob Aagaard (see the delicate intricacies of authorship (http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=3366) which reminds me of his fellow Dane who had a very complicated authorship arrangements and views, Soren Kierkegaard …… Hmmmmmnnn A Danish preoccupation???)

Query: Does this really lead to a different style of play? A more "concrete" style (shades of Willy Hendriks?  Wink)
It will be interesting if anyone of us have the time to go back and review the games (the moves as well as the players' body language and facial expression). At the critical points in the games, are the moves something expected, unexpected, not foreseen, not even within radar range?
(note: Jacob Aagaard has given his 5 cents  Smiley on the critical moments in the Match (http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=3372).

BTW, if you have not read it as yet, you should head over to Chess24 and read GM Tkachiev's preview of Game 11 (I read it with Google translate before the game) in excellent translation by Colin McGourty (thanks Colin!). Unfortunately someone tried to land a cheap shot at Tkachiev in the comments.
  

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A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #380 - 11/24/14 at 20:36:40
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I think it's a screen grab from the video here:
http://www.nrk.no/sport/her-er-carlsens-hemmelige-vm-hjelpere-1.12060538

A video with Hammer talking about the team. Much of it is in Norwegian (I assume) but some is in English.

A few Grunfeld books sitting on the table there.
  

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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #379 - 11/24/14 at 19:15:18
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LostTactic wrote on 11/24/14 at 18:37:33:
I haven't seen an exact quote of Carlsen naming Adams but he definitely was in Sochi and a part of the team, therefore I expect he probably disclosed Adams' help to one of the Norwegian media outlets.

This pic confirms Adams as a part of team Carlsen: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3LLYOjCIAAyGax.jpg credit to the twitter account (also a chess player) @garylanechess for uploading the pic.

I also agree it makes a lot of sense as Adams has the most similar style to Carlsen whom is not actively trying to become World Champion themselves from the top 20.


who let gary lane in the room, or has he sneaked a pic from the balcony?  Wink
  
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #378 - 11/24/14 at 18:37:33
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I haven't seen an exact quote of Carlsen naming Adams but he definitely was in Sochi and a part of the team, therefore I expect he probably disclosed Adams' help to one of the Norwegian media outlets.

This pic confirms Adams as a part of team Carlsen: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3LLYOjCIAAyGax.jpg credit to the twitter account (also a chess player) @garylanechess for uploading the pic.

I also agree it makes a lot of sense as Adams has the most similar style to Carlsen whom is not actively trying to become World Champion themselves from the top 20.
  
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #377 - 11/24/14 at 18:02:10
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Has Carlsen named Adam's as one of his seconds in an interview?

It makes sense as he plays 1.e4 in a strong positional style and also the QGD/QID and Berlin as Black (which one would assume Carlsen had prepared vs 1.e4).

On the other hand it makes Carlsen's loss in game 3 seem even weirder, as Anand simply followed an Aronian-Adams game before allowing an improvement Adams must have been aware of...
  

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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #376 - 11/24/14 at 17:11:03
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Dink Heckler wrote on 11/24/14 at 12:06:50:
Pretty impressive that 41/91 picked the right score in the poll.


I am delighted to see that I have maintained my perfect record in Chess Pub polls. Does not seem to matter if the poll is about a tournament, match, book of the year, or even soccer, my guess is always wrong.
  
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #375 - 11/24/14 at 14:31:36
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Seems sensible enough - vastly experienced (also vs Anand of course!) and tending to try and play the same sort of chess as Carlsen was during the match with white at least.
  
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #374 - 11/24/14 at 13:54:52
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So Carlsen's seconds where his friend Hammer, his coach Nielsen, his often-second Fressinet and ....





... Michael Adams.


Interesting choice.
  
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Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship
Reply #373 - 11/24/14 at 12:06:50
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Pretty impressive that 41/91 picked the right score in the poll.
  

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