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Question: Who's going to win?


* This poll has now closed *
Carlsen +1 16 (17.6%) Carlsen +2 41 (45.1%) Carlsen +3 7 (7.7%) Carlsen +4 or higher 0 (0.0%) Anand +1 8 (8.8%) Anand +2 5 (5.5%) Anand +3 0 (0.0%) Anand +4 or higher 0 (0.0%) Draw and Carlsen wins tiebreaks 7 (7.7%) Draw and Anand wins tiebreaks 0 (0.0%) Carlsen wins but not sure on score 6 (6.6%) Anand wins but not sure on score 1 (1.1%) Total votes: 91 « Created by: LostTactic on: 11/04/14 at 18:04:29 »

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Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship (Read 101276 times)

barnaby Senior Member Offline The night is dark and full of terrors. Posts: 345 Joined: 01/09/12 Gender:	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #57 - 11/10/14 at 00:38:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	tony37 wrote on 11/10/14 at 00:01:11: analysing a bit afterwards, I think 18...Be6 was a (big?) mistake, after 18...Ne6 19.Rg3 Kh8 planning Rg8 black should be completely fine, 18...Qf7 was another good alternative 32.Qf3 seems a mistake by Carlsen, it allows 32...Rxe4 33.Qxe4 f3+ 34.g3 Qd2 and I suspect this is a theoretical draw (of course still massive pressure in a practical game), instead 32.f3 with the plan of Ra7! (or Qa6 if allowed), threatening both Rxa5 and Ree7, is game over some commentators give 19...Rd7 as an improvement for black but then there are some absolutely crazy complications like 20.Bh6 g6 21.Qh4 Qd8 22.Ree3 Raa7 23.Kh2 c5 24.Ref3 ... after 34 ...Qd2 I believe White plays Qf3 winning the pawn and creating threats of Qd5 and then Qf7 edited:: even better might be the immediate 35. Qc4+ i dont think Black holds the draw here


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tony37 God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 619 Joined: 10/16/10	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #56 - 11/10/14 at 00:01:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	analysing a bit afterwards, I think 18...Be6 was a (big?) mistake, after 18...Ne6 19.Rg3 Kh8 planning Rg8 black should be completely fine, 18...Qf7 was another good alternative 32.Qf3 seems a mistake by Carlsen, it allows 32...Rxe4 33.Qxe4 f3+ 34.g3 Qd2 and I suspect this is a theoretical draw (of course still massive pressure in a practical game), instead 32.f3 with the plan of Ra7! (or Qa6 if allowed), threatening both Rxa5 and Ree7, is game over some commentators give 19...Rd7 as an improvement for black but then there are some absolutely crazy complications like 20.Bh6 g6 21.Qh4 Qd8 22.Ree3 Raa7 23.Kh2 c5 24.Ref3 ...


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Seth_Xoma God Member Offline FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381) Posts: 558 Location: Lansing Joined: 11/05/04 Gender:	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #55 - 11/09/14 at 23:37:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	Brilliant win today. On move 14, I wondered how White was going to continue. It looked like we'd have a draw around move 20-25. White had zero, zip, natta out of the opening. 14.Ra3!! was very, very nice. Everything unfolded smoothly after that. This game will be remembered for awhile. In the press conference, Anand looked more annoyed than devastated. I could be delusional, but this match is far from over. Carlsen will also have to avoid the mental trap that everyone else seems to have fallen for - namely, thinking the match is already over (After game TWO?!). The next few games will be very interesting. If Anand wins with White on Tuesday, is the match over?


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MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2115 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #54 - 11/09/14 at 21:58:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	He's also a better player in a way which makes it very hard to prepare round it Since it was asked, the final blunder seems quite easy to explain really. It looks like Anand was trying to find something like a way to make the sundry endings - especially the rook ones after Qe6+ - even plausibly holdable. Did that, but something randomly dropped off instead. Qb7 also I imagine a hard idea to see as he'd had that stupid rook stuck on the b file for so long! Frankly something of a mercy killing by that stage.


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ErictheRed God Member Offline USCF National Master Posts: 2534 Location: USA Joined: 10/02/05	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #53 - 11/09/14 at 21:40:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	RoleyPoley wrote on 11/09/14 at 21:17:20: They, like Ericthered question whether he has the psychology to beat Carlsen and his approach towards this re-match. It has nothing at all to do with psychology to me; Carlsen is just a much better player, that's all.


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RoleyPoley YaBB Moderator Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 746 Location: London Joined: 12/29/13 Gender:	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #52 - 11/09/14 at 21:17:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	LostTactic wrote on 11/09/14 at 17:05:22: I think it's ridiculous to write off Anand's chances after a defeat with Black so early in the match. If it had been with White it would be a different story. I think Anand needs to come out and fight now, hopefully he's prepared the Sicilian for this match and he'll use that in his next Black. It will be interesting to see if Carlsen sticks to the Gruenfeld on Tuesday, Anand's team will have something new prepared now. If Carlsen switches to the Nimzo Anand will definitely have something ready there as well. If Anand loses with White in game 3 then it's over. Hopefully he can bounce back with a win or at least put Carlsen under pressure and make a draw. The big decision for Anand seems to be whether he's going to change his strategy with Black after what happened today. If he had drawn today I think he would continue to play the Berlin. After today though I think he should switch to the Sicilian and do whatever he can to keep the games ultra-sharp. Edit in: @IsaVulpes This link: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/7928738/events/3553668 I think some people are also taking into account yesterday's game where Anand could have lost, not just the manner in which he went down today. Since their first encounter there has been a lot of people talking up Anand's chances, during a period Carlsen has not played so well, and yet Carlsen could have been 2-0 going into game three. GM's i've been reading on twitter don't seem to think that Anand's going to save himself through better opening preparation. His opening preparation is rarely poor and hasnt been to blame so far. They, like Ericthered question whether he has the psychology to beat Carlsen and his approach towards this re-match.

	"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '" Victor Bologan.
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TonyRo God Member Offline I'm gonna crack your skull! Posts: 1846 Location: Cleveland, OH Joined: 11/26/07 Gender:	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #51 - 11/09/14 at 20:32:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	TalJechin wrote on 11/09/14 at 18:59:42: Hopefully, Anand will realise that he has to play actively and complicate with both colours. Maybe a Kalashnikov in his next game as Black!? Just to make TonyRo happy! Now we're talkin! Too late for a last-minute edit though.


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barnaby Senior Member Offline The night is dark and full of terrors. Posts: 345 Joined: 01/09/12 Gender:	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #50 - 11/09/14 at 19:53:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	ReneDescartes wrote on 11/09/14 at 17:15:13: barnaby wrote on 11/09/14 at 16:21:52: I suspect the match is over Not over--I think that's grossly overreacting; it's easy for an apparent god to turn very human in an instant. Still, I think this is worse than just losing the opening game to Topalov, for example, because Carlsen's opening choices have been very bold. "You seek a sharp opening?--here, go ahead, let's try the Gruenfeld and the Sicilian." "You don't want to face my Berlin? I am perfectly happy to face yours." Got to respect Carlsen for that confidence. He's saying he doesn't need to force "the driest dust" on Anand, as the latter complained after the previous match; he's saying his strategy is just to overpower Anand by main force, period. And today he did. I voted Carlsen +1 before the match; the bulk of the match still lies before us. I hope Anand strikes back as White soon as he did against Topalov. Its not over in the sense that they have to play more games until Anand in mathematically eliminated. One more loss and then there is not much left to spectate over except the formality of having to play the games. Carlsen is not all of a sudden going to lose his nerve and with each round just gets psychologically more powerful. Had Carlsen found ....Qe3 yesterday it would be 2-0. The match is over, for all intents and purposes, for me. And I am willing to accept wagers from anyone that wants to put money or some other fungible commodity behind their opinion that Anand still has chances. It reminds me of last year's USA Super Bowl, which was over on the very first play from scimmage after Manning fumbled that snap. One needs not a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


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FischerTal Senior Member Offline I Love Chess Books Posts: 307 Location: England Joined: 04/11/08	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #49 - 11/09/14 at 19:34:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	This is looking like the latter part of the last match now after Carlsen got over his initial nerves. Carlsen just seems so superior he can give Anad all sorts of problems in what starts as any even middle game . Looking at the body language it seems Anand knows his great achievement was winning the candidates to even get here. Looking back at that Candidates Anand had probably gained in experience from playing Carlsen and had opening work left from Match 1 for the candidates while the other players results fell well for him.


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Pale Horse, Pale Rider Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 287 Joined: 12/26/12	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #48 - 11/09/14 at 19:29:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	ErictheRed wrote on 11/09/14 at 17:10:26: I'm writing him off based on his performance against Carlsen over the last few years, not one game. I just don't see anything in these two games that suggest Anand's performance or results will change. Yesterday in game one I thought I saw something. A shadow from the last deceive game of the last WC. Where Anand at least had some serious chances/something to play for. Today was a rather dismal affair ... Anyone else think that Anands blunder in the end is weird? At chessbomb.com it says that Anand had over four minutes left for 6 moves or so. I understand that Anand was under pressure for a while but it doesn't even look like a blunder these guys do in blitz, when they don't have more than 5 minutes for the whole game ...


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TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #47 - 11/09/14 at 18:59:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	I think Carlsen won the opening this time, the comp may say equal but between humans he was under slight pressure from Bxc6 and onwards, with a sudden oversight from Anand. Hopefully, Anand will realise that he has to play actively and complicate with both colours. Maybe a Kalashnikov in his next game as Black!? Just to make TonyRo happy!


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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #46 - 11/09/14 at 18:47:45	Post Tools	Print Post
	I'm writing off Anand after one loss. Anand made 4 or 5 small mistakes in this game, and was forced to resign by move 35. Carlsen is on top of his game and is simply the better player. Anand needed to be able to hold as Black in his first try and failed miserably despite getting an even position out of the opening. In two games, Anand has won the opening battle and has been outplayed in the middlegame. He salvaged one of those two games. At this rate, Anand will be hard pressed to win any games, and to keep Carlsen from winning 3-4 more. I think the 2 point margin is looking pretty weak now.


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MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2115 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #45 - 11/09/14 at 18:37:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	I guess it must be likely to get worrying enough to need that.... The problem with saying you should impose really double edged chess, is that you just can't do it with black unless your opponent feels they need a big advantage to beat you. It looks like Carlsen doesn't need anything like that much to work with


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ReneDescartes God Member Offline Qu'est-ce donc que je suis? Une chose qui pense. Posts: 1240 Joined: 05/17/10 Gender:	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #44 - 11/09/14 at 17:55:42	Post Tools	Print Post
	I predict we will eventually see Anand on the Black side of a Sicilian in this match if Carlsen continues with 1.e4.


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LostTactic Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 336 Joined: 02/19/11	Re: Carlsen vs Anand Sochi 2014 World Championship Reply #43 - 11/09/14 at 17:19:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	ErictheRed wrote on 11/09/14 at 17:10:26: I'm writing him off based on his performance against Carlsen over the last few years, not one game. I just don't see anything in these two games that suggest Anand's performance or results will change. Past history isn't a factor unless Anand let's it psychologically. In the Anand-Gelfand match for example I don't think Gelfand won a game against Anand for over 10 years before game 7 of their match. Similar case with Fischer vs Spassky before their match. Expect there's more examples. Anand needs to treat game 3 as the start of a new 10 game match.


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