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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack (Read 19304 times)
Keano
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #16 - 08/30/17 at 14:00:00
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TN wrote on 08/30/17 at 12:29:04:
On the subject of the Jobava-Prie Attack, what do you think is White's best try after 3...g6? Simon Williams was suggesting 4.f3 on a recent show but I was thinking Qd2/0-0-0/Bh6 might be the go.


I thought 4.e3 Bg7 5.h4 was the latest and greatest try there.
  
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TN
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #15 - 08/30/17 at 12:29:04
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On the subject of the Jobava-Prie Attack, what do you think is White's best try after 3...g6? Simon Williams was suggesting 4.f3 on a recent show but I was thinking Qd2/0-0-0/Bh6 might be the go.
  

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Keano
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #14 - 08/30/17 at 11:52:09
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some defensive programming might have been in order Smiley
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #13 - 08/30/17 at 10:51:44
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 08/29/17 at 14:12:06:
I spend a lot of time changing 0-0-0 to O-O-O in my PGN files. According to the PGN standard, only the second one is correct. See section 8.2.3.3: "Note that the upper case letter "O" is used, not the digit zero."


Wow! I never knew that, Embarrassed I always assumed it was the same as with books and such - I've always used 0-0-0 with zeros in my books, articles, on the web site, and I see that it is also used in the books I've translated.
I just checked with ChessBase and it does, indeed, produce PGN files with the letter O, so the problem with the Flash games must have been because it was lower-case.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #12 - 08/29/17 at 14:12:06
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I spend a lot of time changing 0-0-0 to O-O-O in my PGN files. According to the PGN standard, only the second one is correct. See section 8.2.3.3: "Note that the upper case letter "O" is used, not the digit zero." Programs vary as to whether they will accept 0-0-0, but I haven't noticed any that reject O-O-O. Perhaps because it was lowercase o-o-o?
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #11 - 08/29/17 at 09:38:58
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Snow_Lion wrote on 11/12/14 at 16:15:20:
if you could amend the corrupted pgn files in *this thread! that would be appreciated.


I've only just seen this post (only 3 years too late!) It looks like you used o-o-o instead of 0-0-0 (that is, it should be zeros rather than the letters 'O')
  
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Keano
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #10 - 08/29/17 at 00:00:59
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Another interesting punt.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #9 - 07/24/17 at 17:51:26
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Try the London system pdf instead.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #8 - 07/24/17 at 15:33:10
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One thing that I noticed that there were no notes in the PDF guide from ChessPublishing in the Veresov portion. Am I missing their notes on the Jobava-Prié Attack somewhere?

Thanks
AP
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #7 - 11/14/14 at 05:04:31
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1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.Nc3!? Nf6 4.e4!? Nxe4 5.Nxe4 dxe4 6.dxc5 now what about 6...Qxd1+?

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.Nc3!? Nc6 4.e4!? cxd4 5.exd5 dxc3 6.dxc6 Qxd1+ 7.Rxd1 bxc6 now Prie has said that 8.bxc3 is no good due to 8...Nf6. 

  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #6 - 11/12/14 at 16:15:20
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Note to moderator, if possible, please combine this thread with the other thread I seemed to have started in the main d pawn specials thread, (responded to by Vass), and also if you could amend the corrupted pgn files in *this thread! that would be appreciated. This is more or less my first big attempt at publishing here, and apparently there is errors in the execution of the pgn play board that I've made. If I need to fix it myself, kindly message me with instructions, I'd appreciate it. Feel free to delete this current post once this has been fixed, I would just like the posts to flow well. Thank you.

-SnowLion 

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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #5 - 11/11/14 at 23:26:56
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Pressing on in the Baadur attack, this time exploring the line 3...g6. I've found two recent games from the man himself, Baadur Jobava, playing white verses some very strong grandmaster opposition. The features of each game are interesting and worth noting. 

In the first game, a rapid game vs Van Wely from this years World Active Chess Championship in Dubai, (and subsequently a fine miniature!) Jobava plays the opening straight forwardly and aggressively, developing his queen to d2 and trading of the dark squared bishops as soon as it is possible. White then castles queenside, then plays the pawn move, 10.f3, which enables him to complete thematic development (Nge2,Bd3/with natural ideas of a kingside pawn storm). 

One gets the impression of a bad Sicilian game for the black pieces, and indeed we see classic Sicilian opening moves from Loek like 10...a6, 12...Rc8 and 13...Na5. The fun for black ends there however, with the reality of his king stuck in the centre and no counterplay. Worth noting is how Baadur took time for a little prophylaxis with 13.Ne2/c1/b3 to exchange off blacks best and most active piece. Once the trade is established there is not much black can do but sit back and wait for white to crash through. 



Next, in the second 3...g6 game, our hero plays GM Winants in a classical game in Tromso, Norway. The same straightforward idea of trading off blacks dark squared bishop is seen, but with kingside castling from white. Jobava takes time out to restrict his opponents counterplay with moves like 6.a3 and 15.h3, but continues to slowly improve whites position. Piece play should be highlighted in this game, and it's over cleanly, in only 27 moves. Another opening success for our chosen scheme. 



Whites basic "Tarzan attackesque" plan of no nonsense queen and bishop battery development and subsequent trade off of the DSB's makes a lot of sense and should be respected.

Let's be honest, as black when we develop a bishop in a fianchetto, in particular the kings bishop, we don't envisage it being traded off 4 or 5 moves later, leaving dark squared weaknesses in our position. The dynamic counterplay that that piece affords in openings like the Benko, Grunfeld, Dragon now gone, right out of the opening. Surely this is the main test of 3...g6. Whites play is annoying yet an obviously honest response to the dark squared battle.  Angry

-SnowLion
« Last Edit: 08/29/17 at 09:36:31 by GMTonyKosten »  

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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #4 - 11/11/14 at 20:05:37
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Anonymous3 wrote on 11/11/14 at 05:06:28:
The analysis of the pawn sac is interesting. If it's sound, it could make 3.Nc3!? an interesting response after 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5. The idea is to meet 3...Nf6, 3...Nc6, and 3...e6 with 4.e4.


I agree, it could be interesting. White keeps trying after the potential 4.e4 to transpose to better-or at the very least unusual and uncomfortable- versions of a 1.e4 opening. Lakdawala kept mentioning this strategic aim in his "Ferocious Opening Repertoire" and citing the "bad French Defence" positions black often finds himself in. Granted, he was often mentioning the suspect Nbd7/Nf6/e6/d5 scheme from black, answered soundly by a quick e4/e5 idea, but maybe, white can try similar ideas. Cyrus was talking about the Bg5 Richter-Veresov with f3 and e4, it should be mentioned when he was referring to this however. 

I'm willing to continue looking deeper with Stockfish into the above mentioned lines of Anonymous, for fun, and to search for what I might be able to find in this line, but I should mention that as of now, in my own games, I prefer to play my pawn forward [i]on the third move[/i] after 2...c5 because the Morris Gambit seems to be exactly what kind of game I'm wanting to play as white. 

So as of right now my move order is 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 (it should be mentioned, that I believe in whites chances in the London system proper, though to get into this here any further is outside of the "Veresov" thread) 2...c5 and now I like to play 3.e4!?

But ok, for the sake of the line we can try to explore 3.Nc3, (with the general idea to play e4 as soon as possible, even if white needs to make it a sacrifice, though the preparatory move pawn to f3 should always be considered first). 

First, let's consider 3...Nc6, as 3...Nf6 transposes to the analysis already given. 

1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. e4!? cxd4 5. exd5 dxc3 6. dxc6 Qxd1+ 7. Rxd1 bxc6 8. bxc3 f6 9. Bc7 and white has enough activity for at least equality.
...Kf7 10. Rd8 e6 11. Ba6 Ne7 12. Nf3 g5 13. Be2 Bg7 14. Rxh8 Bxh8 15. c4 e5 16. g4 Bg7 17. h4 h6 18. hxg5 hxg5 19. Nd2 Be6 20. Ne4 and Stockfish gives +0.30 after about an hour of searching. White seems to have more active minors, in particular dark squared bishops, because of the black kingside pawns. White's king is more active and centralized, and has better chances to infiltrate blacks queenside.
  

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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #3 - 11/11/14 at 06:34:37
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I notice that Richard Palliser seemed to have doubts about 3...g6 a couple of months ago.

Snow_Lion's comments about 3...Bf5 4.f3 e6 5.g4 Bg6 6.h4 ("I can't believe that Black can be worse here" -- Palliser) h5 7.g5 Nfd7 8.e4 and 3...c5 4. e4 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 dxe4 6. dxc5 Qa5+ 7. c3 Qxc5 8. Qa4+ Nc6 9. Qxe4 g6 10. Nf3 strike me as rather optimistic, aside from the fact that White isn't actually ahead in development in the first case.
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? The Baadur Attack
Reply #2 - 11/11/14 at 05:06:28
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The analysis of the pawn sac is interesting. If it's sound, it could make 3.Nc3!? an interesting response after 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5. The idea is to meet 3...Nf6, 3...Nc6, and 3...e6 with 4.e4. 

After 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nc3!? what about 3...g6? I haven't been able to find any edge for White here.
  
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