(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › General › General Chess › Kramnik on the downfall
(Moderators: RoleyPoley, trw, proustiskeen)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kramnik on the downfall (Read 25484 times)
RoleyPoley
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 746
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #48 - 12/13/14 at 22:43:53
Post Tools
Uhohspaghettio wrote on 12/13/14 at 15:21:49:
I think RenesDescartes has a vastly greater knowledge and understanding of chess and chess players than me. However I have a question, not to be taken as challenging the analysis: if Botvinnik was so boring, then how come he led the way with playing f3 in the queen's gambit, and presumably g4 in many lines? I had never heard of this reputation of Botvinnik before, I heard it of Karpov and of Carlsen and sometimes of Anand but believed if anything the opposite of Botvinnik. 
   
I'm sure he must have had something of this reputation. However in a way, isn't that just chess? Chess isn't a party. There's a difference between playing correctly and obstinately cautiously and forcing draws or dull endgames you have specialist knowledge of. 



I think Rene was being sarcastic in response to someone labelling Kramnik a coffeehouse player.
  
"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uhohspaghettio
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 515
Joined: 02/23/11
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #47 - 12/13/14 at 15:21:49
Post Tools
I think RenesDescartes has a vastly greater knowledge and understanding of chess and chess players than me. However I have a question, not to be taken as challenging the analysis: if Botvinnik was so boring, then how come he led the way with playing f3 in the queen's gambit, and presumably g4 in many lines? I had never heard of this reputation of Botvinnik before, I heard it of Karpov and of Carlsen and sometimes of Anand but believed if anything the opposite of Botvinnik. 
   
I'm sure he must have had something of this reputation. However in a way, isn't that just chess? Chess isn't a party. There's a difference between playing correctly and obstinately cautiously and forcing draws or dull endgames you have specialist knowledge of. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Katalyst
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 128
Joined: 10/01/07
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #46 - 12/08/14 at 23:59:52
Post Tools
Maybe he is just not quite as motivated as he once was, having already achieved everything there is to achieve in chess and having a family and all Smiley  he is still an absolute beast of course. I would love to see a Carlsen - Kramnik match above all.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jupp53
God Member
*****
Offline


be

Posts: 988
Location: Frankfurt/Main
Joined: 01/04/09
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #45 - 12/05/14 at 22:29:22
Post Tools
up and comer wrote on 12/04/14 at 18:41:46:
Not bad Mr. Kramnik  Cool. Add in his appearance fee and it was a financially successful tournament, on top of gaining some rating points and passing Nakamura on the live ratings list.


Do you mean Hikaru Nakamura, the manga writer?  Wink She writes interesting stuff.

Seriously, each world champion will be beaten. So being in the top ten is no downfall then. So the title of this thread sounds like trolling to me.  Sad
  
Medical textbooks say I should be dead since April 2002.
Dum spiro spero. Smiley
Narcissm is the humans primary disease.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2928
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #44 - 12/05/14 at 19:29:45
Post Tools
Yu is no mug, welcome to the real world Mr Kramnik. He didnt do too bad all the same.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Apollo
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 5
Joined: 12/02/14
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #43 - 12/04/14 at 21:20:44
Post Tools
ReneDescartes wrote on 12/04/14 at 15:48:15:
Yeah, Kramnik playing the Berlin and eventually playing a risky move or, God forbid, making a tactical error is the height of coffeehouse chess. In fact, when you say "coffeehouse," you say "Kramnik." It figures, because, after all, he was the last champion student of that ultimate coffeehouse player and devil-may-care bon-vivant, Botvinnik--the life of the Party.


f5&gxf5 is not only a tactical error (I assume he missed Qc3), it's pretty insane to consider in this situation, when he only needs a draw to clinch the tournament win. Even without a direct tactical refutation, that game is going to end either 1-0 or 0-1 after he opens the g-file.

Lawl @ Botvinnik-the life of the Party, I will use that for sure. Coincidentally many Botvinnik School students were daredevil attacking types -- they probably benefited from the training there the most. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
up and comer
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 258
Joined: 10/20/08
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #42 - 12/04/14 at 18:41:46
Post Tools
Not bad Mr. Kramnik  Cool. Add in his appearance fee and it was a financially successful tournament, on top of gaining some rating points and passing Nakamura on the live ratings list.
  
uscf - 2250
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IsaVulpes
Senior Member
****
Offline


No.

Posts: 345
Joined: 12/09/07
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #41 - 12/04/14 at 18:34:55
Post Tools
up and comer wrote on 12/04/14 at 17:49:55:
I wonder how much money he won.

$12500 https://twitter.com/chess24com/status/540499322228330498
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
up and comer
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 258
Joined: 10/20/08
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #40 - 12/04/14 at 17:49:55
Post Tools
Kramnik was playing his game against Yu pretty well until f5 happened. After that things quickly got away from him. I would personally call that a positional error, although tactical errors soon followed. Other than that strange move very good form from Kramnik, it was fun to watch his games. He tied for second with Giri right? I wonder how much money he won.
  
uscf - 2250
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2115
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #39 - 12/04/14 at 16:49:38
Post Tools
9 rounds without a break is a fairly brutal schedule Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ReneDescartes
God Member
*****
Offline


Qu'est-ce donc que je
suis? Une chose qui pense.

Posts: 1240
Joined: 05/17/10
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #38 - 12/04/14 at 15:48:15
Post Tools
Yeah, Kramnik playing the Berlin and eventually playing a risky move or, God forbid, making a tactical error is the height of coffeehouse chess. In fact, when you say "coffeehouse," you say "Kramnik." It figures, because, after all, he was the last champion student of that ultimate coffeehouse player and devil-may-care bon-vivant, Botvinnik--the life of the Party.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Apollo
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 5
Joined: 12/02/14
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #37 - 12/04/14 at 15:11:36
Post Tools
Pretty baffling loss to Yu after a great tournament. Why did he choose to play coffeehouse chess today? Was he angling for 8/9 glory?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #36 - 12/04/14 at 12:48:07
Post Tools
Kramnik on his downfall gained 8 rating points. I wish each downfall I have to go through would end the same way.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 619
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #35 - 12/04/14 at 12:16:52
Post Tools
something went very wrong for Kramnik
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
chk
God Member
*****
Offline


a pawn is a pawn

Posts: 1063
Location: Athens
Joined: 10/26/06
Gender: Male
Re: Kramnik on the downfall
Reply #34 - 12/04/14 at 10:49:57
Post Tools
Seth_Xoma wrote on 12/04/14 at 01:38:25:
This loss was a huge hit to GM Giri's career. One which he may never recover from. 

It's really sad to see him lose to someone like Kramnik who just doesn't have it anymore.



iirc Giri does not have a good record vs. Kramnik. Also from some of Giri's annotations at Chessbase one can tell that he admires Kramnik's play. I think he could have some psychological difficulties facing Kramnik and this may affect his level of play.
  
"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge