Normal Topic Scoring much better with the black pieces!??? (Read 4386 times)
tommyg
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #8 - 07/27/15 at 23:10:58
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/27/15 at 19:02:10:
tommyg wrote on 07/27/15 at 12:39:33:
DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/27/15 at 03:19:43:
You too??



Yes!

And I am not sure what to make of it.  Or maybe I shouldn't make anything of it.   Smiley


It depends. I have had this problem for over a decade and one tournament few months ago I drew two 2000s as White. I have my own thread on the subject. There also was this tournament that I played almost 10 years ago where my score in all 9 rounds was ½-½ for two games, and then the rest all 0-1. So I lost with White and win with Black. One of those draw was against 2000 as White again Sad, one of my 0-1 was lost to GM in less than 25 moves as White. Actually I was about -3 by move 17 but just prolonged my suffering a bit.

Try to change your openings before you end up like me long term Smiley


Well after competing at the World Open this year I noticed I was better or equal after the opening in all my games!  This led me to discovering two glaring weakness in my play:

I don't know how to conduct a "classical" kingside attack when the position is screaming for it.

and I am no good at knowing when to and how to use my pawns in the center to mix it up and/or clear files!

So I am working on those to see if they help my score as White.

When I do win as Black (and the rare times as White) it usually later in the middle game or endgame and usually after breaking through on the queenside.

So I need to get comfortable with maneuvers on the kingside and center I guess.   Smiley
  
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tommyg
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #7 - 07/27/15 at 23:07:16
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MartinC wrote on 07/27/15 at 13:41:09:
Its a tiny sample at a fairly low level of play Smiley
(At ~1300 the status of the game from the opening will very rarely persist to its end.).

So ignore it for now, if it persists in a few years maybe think about it.



I tend to agree with you especially at my level of play but the trend has been the same for 4 years.  I have always won more as Black OTB no matter what my rating. 

Most likely an anomaly still but I am still curious.   Smiley
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #6 - 07/27/15 at 19:02:10
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tommyg wrote on 07/27/15 at 12:39:33:
DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/27/15 at 03:19:43:
You too??



Yes!

And I am not sure what to make of it.  Or maybe I shouldn't make anything of it.   Smiley


It depends. I have had this problem for over a decade and one tournament few months ago I drew two 2000s as White. I have my own thread on the subject. There also was this tournament that I played almost 10 years ago where my score in all 9 rounds was ½-½ for two games, and then the rest all 0-1. So I lost with White and win with Black. One of those draw was against 2000 as White again Sad, one of my 0-1 was lost to GM in less than 25 moves as White. Actually I was about -3 by move 17 but just prolonged my suffering a bit.

Try to change your openings before you end up like me long term Smiley
  
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MartinC
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #5 - 07/27/15 at 13:41:09
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Its a tiny sample at a fairly low level of play Smiley
(At ~1300 the status of the game from the opening will very rarely persist to its end.).

So ignore it for now, if it persists in a few years maybe think about it.

As for Bonsai, well, captains do tend to like the idea of people who score over 80 per cent Wink
  
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tommyg
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #4 - 07/27/15 at 12:42:03
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Bonsai wrote on 07/27/15 at 07:00:39:
tommyg wrote on 07/27/15 at 00:33:38:
I am getting to play a decent amount of OTB chess this summer.  All decent longish rated games.  (shortest games have been G/100 d5)  

And I am struck by the discrepancy in my record with the White pieces vs my record with the Black pieces.   It is not even close!

With a corr player one possibility is that you have a skewed expectation of what a game with white should be like (expecting the usual corr white presses with a chance for a quick knockout, black more or less never wins early etc.), which then collides with reality of OTB play, where some early tactical complications suddenly seem unfathomable. I sometimes felt a bit like that when I used to play corr...

Mmmh, just had a look at my own last two years of rated games and I feel like - if anything - my black score is worse than it should be (the lower number of black games is actually because my team captain has noticed this and tends to play me more often as white than black):
white: 20.5 / 25 (+19 =3 -3 = 82%) vs. opponent avg. of 2148
black: 4.5 / 13 (+3 =3 -7 = 35%) vs. opponent avg. of 2171



That is interesting but I am not really a correspondence player although I am going to try and be one.  I just joined ICCF and am going to enter my first tournament there.

I looked deeper and for the past 4 years of OTB play that general statistics hold true:   I play better with the Black pieces.  It is more pronounced now because I have been able to play more this summer and I am playing better in general I think.   

Not sure if this a chess "personality" thing and if it should affect my choice of White openings or not.
  
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tommyg
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #3 - 07/27/15 at 12:39:33
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DenVerdsligeRejsende wrote on 07/27/15 at 03:19:43:
You too??



Yes!

And I am not sure what to make of it.  Or maybe I shouldn't make anything of it.   Smiley
  
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Bonsai
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #2 - 07/27/15 at 07:00:39
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tommyg wrote on 07/27/15 at 00:33:38:
I am getting to play a decent amount of OTB chess this summer.  All decent longish rated games.  (shortest games have been G/100 d5)  

And I am struck by the discrepancy in my record with the White pieces vs my record with the Black pieces.   It is not even close!

With a corr player one possibility is that you have a skewed expectation of what a game with white should be like (expecting the usual corr white presses with a chance for a quick knockout, black more or less never wins early etc.), which then collides with reality of OTB play, where some early tactical complications suddenly seem unfathomable. I sometimes felt a bit like that when I used to play corr...

Mmmh, just had a look at my own last two years of rated games and I feel like - if anything - my black score is worse than it should be (the lower number of black games is actually because my team captain has noticed this and tends to play me more often as white than black):
white: 20.5 / 25 (+19 =3 -3 = 82%) vs. opponent avg. of 2148
black: 4.5 / 13 (+3 =3 -7 = 35%) vs. opponent avg. of 2171
  
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DenVerdsligeRejsende
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Re: Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
Reply #1 - 07/27/15 at 03:19:43
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You too??
  
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tommyg
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Scoring much better with the black pieces!???
07/27/15 at 00:33:38
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I am getting to play a decent amount of OTB chess this summer.  All decent longish rated games.  (shortest games have been G/100 d5)   

And I am struck by the discrepancy in my record with the White pieces vs my record with the Black pieces.   It is not even close!
For this summer----
With the White pieces I am:  +2/=0/-6

With the Black pieces I am:  +5/=2/-2

And there is not an ELO discrepancy with my opponents with White or Black pieces.  In fact the average ELO of my opponents when I play with the Black pieces has been about a 100 points higher than me!  White the average ELO of my opponents when I have the White pieces has been at about my rating. (I am hovering at 1284 at the moment)

Does this meany anything or just pointless statistics that are fun to talk about?  Smiley
  
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