Hi.
fjd wrote on 10/28/17 at 10:42:50:
I remember thinking that ...a6 or ...c6 could be considered "concessions" in a sense, allowing White to favourably switch to an Austrian Attack, in the latter case perhaps with 5 f4!?, and in the latter with 5 h3, followed by f4, Nf3, Bd3 and meeting ...b5 with a2-a3. I thought this was pretty pleasant for White (although evidently Marin disagrees!).
4.Be3 a6 5.f4 is a line I would like to look into further. I'm not 100% sure that black is OK, which bothers me a lot.
Hopefully Marin will have something decent against
4...c6 5.h3 
fjd wrote on 10/28/17 at 10:42:50:
At some point I decided the 5...0-0 line was the only one I'd be willing to play with Black. This was because allowing ...e5 seemed totally harmless, while I couldn't find an advantage after 6 Nf3 a6 7 Bh6 b5 8 Bd3 Nc6!. This left 6 0-0-0, which isn't ideal as it castles into an attack, and seemed a bit too complicated for a practical weapon. The only slow game I had this variation in was a 45|45 training game on the internet (which incidentally began 4 Bg5 Bg7 5 Qd2 0-0 6 0-0-0, and transposed after an eventual Bh6). In that game, Black made (in my opinion) the mistake of (after 6 0-0-0 c6 7 f3 b5 8 Bh6 Qa5 9 Kb1) playing ...b4 before ...Be6. Chasing the Knight back to e2 and then playing ...Be6 allows Ne2-c1, when the Queenside is very solid (Knight on f8; no mate mirrored), and I eventually won with a Kingside attack. I believe I concluded afterwards that playing ...Be6 before ...b4 in some form avoids the maneuver to c1 and gives Black better attacking chances. I'm not sure I ever got around to analyzing this more deeply.
MNb wrote on 10/28/17 at 16:00:25:
"Heavy strategic play typically ensues."
Not typically. 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 O-O 6.O-O-O c6 7.f3 b5 8.h4 and 8.Bh6 belong to the most tactical lines of the entire opening, as razor sharp as the the sharpest Dragon or Najdorf.
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 0-0 Is very much distinct from lines where black waits with castling, that is true.
It has been some time since I checked, but I remember thinking black's play was a bit insufficient if white played accurately. Anyway. Maybe looking at this line would be good to start off with, since if it works to just play 4...Bg7 and 5...0-0 (pretty much the most natural moves) then why bother playing something else.
Shaw's analysis of 6.Bh6 was not conclusive as far as I could tell (black should be able to improve). So, much like Vigus and MNb concluded in 2009, 6.0-0-0 still seems like the biggest problem imo.
MNb wrote on 10/28/17 at 16:00:25:
"There are many lines after 4.Be3 obviously so I don't know where to start"
Besides specifying Black's 4th move you should begin with specifying White's 5th and 6th. 4.Be3 c6 5.Be2 Bg7 6.Nf3 O-O turns into a classical ....
Argentinean Attack: White plays Be3, Qd2 and f3.
150 Attack: White plays Be3, Qd2 and Nf3 (eventually h3 first).
Pseudo-Argentinean Attack: 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.Bh6.
Pseudo-Austrian Attack: 4.Be3, 5.h3 and 6.f4.
Archbishop Attack: 4.Be3, 5.h3 and 6.g4.
I was thinking about trying to get to grips with:
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 a6 5.Qd2 b5 6.f3 Not that the above systems are not interesting to look at as well. Thanks for listing them clearly by the way. As it stands now I'm fairly sure I will first try to see if I can't find anything playable for black after 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 0-0 though.
MNb wrote on 10/28/17 at 16:00:25:
If you want to avoid strategic fights the biggest problem might be 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6.
I'd definitely be willing to discuss this as well. Want to see if Marin reaches this (or the same position with 6.Bh6 though via a 4.Bg5 move order) first though.
Have a nice day.
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Pirc 4 Be3: Best Lines/Move Orders (Read 25511 times)
