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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky? (Read 15307 times)
Mtal
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #15 - 04/30/19 at 20:08:25
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pirc kid wrote on 09/14/18 at 23:16:41:
Hi guys

I got interested into some 1.d4-lines for White and decided to try to switch to "Anti-Indian" d4-repertoire based on

d4 Nf6:
Trompowsky (I have Pert and Kindermann, will probably add recent book from Kryakvin later), which fascinates me and actually one of the reasons to get interested in playing d4

d4 d5: 
more or less following Burgess repertoire recommendation in the slav and QG, with additional help from some recent publications in those lines, in order to make that repertoire bulletproof. And probably I deviate in some minor lines when I find something more suitable. All in all, I think I can get very comfortable playing White.

d4 vs g6/d6 -> transposing to e4-lines I already know quite well
d4 f5 Nc3 (interested in Sokolovs recent DVD for that matter)

I think that can be quite a competitive repertoire

However my problem is d4 e6. With all those possible transpositions to the Indians,Benoni,Dutch my options are limited here (and I dont want to enter a French)

Of course I could follow Burgess here, but is his choice, the Torre, really an opening to trust against stronger opponents? 
(Also his lines vs Dutch via e6 and this annoying d4 e6 Nf3 c5 move order got me some headaches) I have the feeling if I adopt those lines I have a weak spot in my repertoire right from the start. 

And what could be the alternatives? Zukertort is out of question and London does not really convince me either at the moment after watching some black recommendations from Gustafsson and King resp. 

So I am interested what people with similar repertoire approaches would advise me here.
How would you solve this e6-problem ? Do I underrate Torre and it is actually more reliable? Or would you advise to learn the London complex just because of that e6-move? Or is there some other possibility I forgot?

thanks and cheers
PK



Hi, what video by Ssokolov on the Dutch are you referring too?
  
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Leon_Trotsky
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #14 - 04/24/19 at 01:15:59
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1. d4 Cf6 2. Ag5 e6 3. e4 would be a common move. Most Trompowsky type move I think, since it has usual idea of giving bishop pair for initiative.

I was thinking of 3. d5, but it looks very fisky and weird.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #13 - 04/23/19 at 23:31:23
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He mentioned he doesn't like the Torre, though.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #12 - 04/23/19 at 05:26:50
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Coming back to this, I would ask the OP what their response would be to 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6. At this stage, if they are happy to play 3.Nf3 with a transposition to the Torre, then there is an anti-Dutch option available to them, I think: 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.d5, which was recommended in Johnsen and Summerscale. Seems much more economical than going into the French.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #11 - 09/17/18 at 09:56:59
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If Black opens with 1...e6, it's easy to assume he knows the French, and lots of players play the exchange against it. So, I think it's unlikely you are going to catch your opponent out of his preparation with the exchange French.

my 50 cents as a 1.d4 e6 player myself as Black.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #10 - 09/16/18 at 16:54:05
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Thanks for all your suggestions. Seems I am not the only one who is annoyed that such a little move requires so much work.

After some survey I dislike Torre. I would play the Tromp e6 with Nd2 (afaik the choice of Gareev)

But I found out that both Guramishvili (chess24) and Sielecki (chessable) opt for French Exchange in their recent repertoire videos. I looked a bit into the c24 stuff and it is quite interesting how play can evolve and that black can actually go wrong with "normal" moves. I will investigate this further, but still my hopes are not that high that French Exchange can be a longterm solution...
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #9 - 09/16/18 at 00:38:24
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I believe 1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 e6 3 g3 d5 would also take him out of his repertoire, as Burgess does not recommend the Catalan (instead the Bf4 QGD).

In terms of stylistic consistently, if you meet 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bg5 e6 with 3 e4 (and 3...h6 4 Bxf6 Qxf6 5 c3), then I'd argue you get positions that are kind of French Tarrasch-y. Meanwhile, if you play 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bg5 e6 3 Nd2, then you may as well just aim for a Torre against 1...e6.

Personally, I'd probably play 2 e4 d5 3 Nd2, but then again I'm a 1 e4 player with the French Tarrasch in his repertoire...

That being said, I think a guy at my club that plays a similar repertoire also goes for the French Tarrasch.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #8 - 09/15/18 at 22:13:25
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Leon_Trotsky wrote on 09/15/18 at 22:07:29:
I was thinking of making a similar repertoire, why not fianchetto without immediate c4: 1. d4 e6 2. Cf3 and fianchetto next move ¿ If you really want avoid Bojo-Indian, delayed c4 works but the Bojo is not really as fearsome as the Grünfeld, KID, Benoni, Q.I.D.  Cheesy

Probably an early ...c5 from Black is the main issue you have to solve with these g3 move orders. For instance 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5, where 3.e4 is the critical move but completely different from Catalan setups, or 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #7 - 09/15/18 at 22:08:31
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gillbod wrote on 09/15/18 at 20:35:36:

But black has many ways to diverge. Firstly, it would involve learning an extra line against the Dutch. Then there's the London system vs the Benoni set ups, Queen's Indian set ups. Even some offbeat ideas like playing ...d6 and trying to push through ...e5 can make some sense now that the Bf4 bishop will be hit with tempo.

After considering all this, I thought the exchange French might be an easier option.


Maybe the Exchange French is easier, but it's also quite different in style from the rest of the repertoire you're outlining.

1...e6 is a decent move, so White can't expect to have it all that easy against it! As someone who has played it quite a bit as Black, I would probably find the Exchange French and 2.Bf4 about equally annoying.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #6 - 09/15/18 at 22:07:29
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I was thinking of making a similar repertoire, why not fianchetto without immediate c4: 1. d4 e6 2. Cf3 and fianchetto next move ¿ If you really want avoid Bojo-Indian, delayed c4 works but the Bojo is not really as fearsome as the Grünfeld, KID, Benoni, QID  Cheesy

I would think that Black has to play ...d5 to get some central control, since s/he already played ...e6 any making future ...e5 a waste of tempo. To avoid any ...b6 systems, you could just go 1. d4 e6 2. g3 immediately.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #5 - 09/15/18 at 20:35:36
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Stigma wrote on 09/15/18 at 16:03:35:
If 1.d4 e6 is a problem, why not 2.Bf4? Especially if you intended the London anyway, but even if you didn't this is a London with many of Black's possible setups already gone.


I only intend the London if black is committed to ...d5. I like that bishop on f4 when the ...e5 square has been weakened by this move. If black were to follow Bf4 with ...d5, then I'd be happy with 1.d4 e6 2.Bf4.

But black has many ways to diverge. Firstly, it would involve learning an extra line against the Dutch. Then there's the London system vs the Benoni set ups, Queen's Indian set ups. Even some offbeat ideas like playing ...d6 and trying to push through ...e5 can make some sense now that the Bf4 bishop will be hit with tempo.

After considering all this, I thought the exchange French might be an easier option.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #4 - 09/15/18 at 16:03:35
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If 1.d4 e6 is a problem, why not 2.Bf4? Especially if you intended the London anyway, but even if you didn't this is a London with many of Black's possible setups already gone.

I've been thinking of combining 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 with 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 myself. Queen's Gambit lines being relative weak points in my "real" 1.d4/2.c4 repertoire.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #3 - 09/15/18 at 11:07:20
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I had a similar quandary. I was trying to plan a repertoire built on 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5, 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 and 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5. In this case, 1...e6 was also the most annoying move to deal with. 

I reached the same conclusion as RdC. Black has so much flexibility with 1...e6. In seeking to a) reduce my workload and b) have a large say in the resulting structures, I concluded that the Exchange French was the best solution. There is some nice explanation of white's ideas in Axel Smith's e3 Poison.
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #2 - 09/15/18 at 09:05:17
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pirc kid wrote on 09/14/18 at 23:16:41:
However my problem is d4 e6.



You could consider the exchange French with 1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. cxd5 exd5 4. c4 reaching positions that can be very similar to those from lines of the Queens Gambit Accepted. ( 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 e5 4. Bxc4 exd4 5. exd4 )
  
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Re: d4 repertoire based on Burgess & Trompovsky?
Reply #1 - 09/15/18 at 03:02:25
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First place i'd look is the Trompowsky variation, 1d4 Nf6 2Bg5 e6 , when 3Nf3 d5 is a direct transposition to Torre.  If you pick up Torre you will have secondary option in Trompowsky 2...e6. 
I will assume you do not prefer an Open Sicilian after 1d4 e6 2Nf3 c5 3e4  Smiley
  
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