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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Modern Engines and Classic Games (Read 9862 times)
Pawnpusher
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Re: Modern Engines and Classic Games
Reply #6 - 04/20/20 at 10:57:20
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I love looking at classic games with engines.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Modern Engines and Classic Games
Reply #5 - 04/20/20 at 01:09:31
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BeeCaves wrote on 04/19/20 at 19:04:31:
You might find this interesting... Some guys like Capablanca rate quite well based on engine analysis and some others like Steinitz much less well, although you could nitpick a lot of things.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/who-was-the-best-world-chess-champion-in-hist...

I could do more than nitpick, but I won't even start.

To me the most interesting thing about retrospective computer analysis of games is not how often the human player made the computer-approved move, but whether the subsequent published analysis stands up to computer scrutiny. The analysts have so much more information than the players, that it's fair to hold them to a much higher standard.
  
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cathexis
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Re: Modern Engines and Classic Games
Reply #4 - 04/19/20 at 23:15:17
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Here are two quotes pullled from the comments section of the "Better than ratings?" article that is linked within the article you linked too:

"Carlsen has a better caps rating than Fischer because no one is creative anymore. Everyone plays engine lines which puts them at the least amount of risk. Carlsen doesn't innovate the way Fischer did. Leela is the new Fischer. Only she makes chess exciting."

And the other:

"Far from clear in the Chess.com sense.
But there's an old joke about the two words.[Accuracy & Precision] I've idly tried to adjust my colloquial use when I can.
"Precision is (sorta) successfully performing an intended act to the same end that you tried to achieve.
"Regularly, this is great if you're in Baseball trying to throw pitches."
But the joke is, if you punch a brick wall in an abandoned alley 26 times in a row, .... your accuracy is 100%!
"Uhhh..." "Exactly"
"I really meant to open the door."
"Almost with you"
"Accuracy Zero, Precision 100%. I successfully punched the wall 26 times"
This has interesting applications for chess.
Jokes aside, if you're "prone" to things like overzealous Knight moves, you "tend towards high precision" but very likely could go down in Accuracy by 300 rating points. "

[I could see a tool to quote thread replies on the forum, but not to insert an external quote.]
In fairness, the two commenters were "Midnight Rhino" and "Punic88."

I found the above comments interesting in light of your replies, but I'm still very grateful that both of you took the time to answer! Even in my Noob mind, I was a little surprised of the CAPS rankings listed in the article. I also have tried to consider whether brilliancy in chess is not an exercise in violating the maxim: "There is no such thing as a winning move." But if not, than how is brilliancy defined and could that point out inadequacies in the CAPS system?

Food for Thought,

Cathexis

  
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TopNotch
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Re: Modern Engines and Classic Games
Reply #3 - 04/19/20 at 20:10:48
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BeeCaves wrote on 04/19/20 at 19:04:31:
You might find this interesting... Some guys like Capablanca rate quite well based on engine analysis and some others like Steinitz much less well, although you could nitpick a lot of things.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/who-was-the-best-world-chess-champion-in-hist...



Very interesting article, thanks for pointing it out.
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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BeeCaves
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Re: Modern Engines and Classic Games
Reply #2 - 04/19/20 at 19:04:31
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You might find this interesting... Some guys like Capablanca rate quite well based on engine analysis and some others like Steinitz much less well, although you could nitpick a lot of things.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/who-was-the-best-world-chess-champion-in-hist...

  
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TopNotch
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I only look 1 move ahead,
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Re: Modern Engines and Classic Games
Reply #1 - 04/19/20 at 18:45:07
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cathexis wrote on 04/19/20 at 16:30:12:
Greetings!

Has anyone ever tried running the most brilliant & classic games of the past through modern chess engines to see how they'd fare againest Stockfish, etc.?

Major quibble: Of course if ALL the moves aren't the same then you could say it's no longer the same game. True. And if you allow the engine to play whatever then it certainly would change the game into lines of its preference, especially if you task the engine with the losing side. But it would be interesting to load mid-game positions and see what the engines thought of the moves the great masters of the past had chosen, especially in the absence of regrettable and obvious blunders. I suppose also I could just load these games myself. But I'm curious if there's ever been a more "formal" study of this and what were the results?

Stay safe, be hopeful, and thanks in advance,

Cathexis


I did that sometime back with Fischer's Game of the Century against Donald Byrne and the Engine was quite impressed with Bobby's play Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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cathexis
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Modern Engines and Classic Games
04/19/20 at 16:30:12
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Greetings!

Has anyone ever tried running the most brilliant & classic games of the past through modern chess engines to see how they'd fare againest Stockfish, etc.?

Major quibble: Of course if ALL the moves aren't the same then you could say it's no longer the same game. True. And if you allow the engine to play whatever then it certainly would change the game into lines of its preference, especially if you task the engine with the losing side. But it would be interesting to load mid-game positions and see what the engines thought of the moves the great masters of the past had chosen, especially in the absence of regrettable and obvious blunders. I suppose also I could just load these games myself. But I'm curious if there's ever been a more "formal" study of this and what were the results?

Stay safe, be hopeful, and thanks in advance,

Cathexis
  
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