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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Trading pieces (Read 5458 times)
LeeRoth
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #14 - 05/06/20 at 21:23:46
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kylemeister wrote on 05/06/20 at 17:41:35:
LeeRoth wrote on 05/06/20 at 17:26:04:
I do remember a Capa game where his opponent tried to trade everything in order to make a draw, and, with each trade, Capa just steadily improved his position and won the ending.

I guess you're thinking of Menchik-Capablanca, which I recall from Chernev's The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1258404


Yes.  That’s the one.  Thanks!
  
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Stigma
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #13 - 05/06/20 at 21:01:37
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Great thread, everyone. Turns out there's quite a lot of material on trades, both recent and older stuff, and for different levels.

ReneDescartes wrote on 05/06/20 at 13:56:02:

It strikes me that studying Capablanca's games would pay dividends here. Someone once said something to the effect that Capablanca's opponents don't have any good pieces--he has exchanged them all off. 

Actually any known endgame specialist should be good at making the right trades throughout the game - it comes with the territory, right? In additon to Capablanca, there is specific endgame material published on:

Smyslov (both his own Endgame Virtuoso and more recent book specifically on Rook endings)

Andersson (not only the games collection by Kaufeld and Kern, but also a series of Modern Chess endgame databases by Marin)

Karpov (Endgame Virtuoso book by Karolyi and Aplin)

Carlsen (Endgame Virtuoso book by Karolyi, plus an endgame database by Marin)

Speaking of Marin, his book Learn from the Legends must be relevant, but I must admit I've never bought or studied it. And for all of these players there is the caveat that if the topic is trades in the middlegame, a regular games collections may be more useful than endgame material, even if the material on trades isn't picked out and categorized for us.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #12 - 05/06/20 at 17:41:35
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LeeRoth wrote on 05/06/20 at 17:26:04:
I do remember a Capa game where his opponent tried to trade everything in order to make a draw, and, with each trade, Capa just steadily improved his position and won the ending.

I guess you're thinking of Menchik-Capablanca, which I recall from Chernev's The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1258404
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #11 - 05/06/20 at 17:26:04
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I heard it as Fischer doesn’t have bad pieces.  He trades them off. Smiley. I do remember a Capa game where his opponent tried to trade everything in order to make a draw, and, with each trade, Capa just steadily improved his position and won the ending.   

In any event, it seems like there are a fair number of treatises that cover the topic of exchanging based on general strategic principles.  But not anything akin to Pawn Structure Chess or Chess Structures that surveys the various structures and compiles concrete advice on which particular pieces to keep/trade.  Although iirc Mauricio Flores Rios does do some of this in Chess Structures.



  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #10 - 05/06/20 at 13:56:02
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In Willemze's The Chess Toolbox, the first of the four parts is "Exchange Your Way to Victory," where almost all of the examples are from the middlegame. He covers in tree form many different things that can be accomplished by exchanging (achieving a local majority of pieces, altering the structure favorably for the remaining pieces, and many others, each with subordinate lists). His style is less discursive than Soltis's. Both books are good.

It strikes me that studying Capablanca's games would pay dividends here. Someone once said something to the effect that Capablanca's opponents don't have any good pieces--he has exchanged them all off. 
  
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #9 - 05/05/20 at 23:31:27
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The book Techniques of Positional Play by Bronznik and Terekhin (it is on the Forward Chess app) has a chapter with 5 subchapters with strategic goals of exchanges. Like getting rid of pieces that cover entry squares and exchanging bishops to weaken a pawn complex.
  
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #8 - 05/04/20 at 23:13:16
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Many games collections discuss this as part of the player's thought process.  Lessons with a Grandmaster by Sneed and Gulko comes to mind, and almost any book on strategy and planning covers it in some detail.
  
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #7 - 05/04/20 at 19:36:20
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There's a chapter on exchanging in Yusupov's Chess Lessons (=Schachunterricht), as well as in his Quality Chess series. Also in Euwe and Kramer's middlegame books.
  
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #6 - 05/04/20 at 17:13:15
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dave-o wrote on 05/04/20 at 02:22:02:
Your Kingdom For My Horse by Andy Soltis is a good treatment of this subject.

Thanks for this tip, that book wasn't on my radar. The excerpt looks great! 

RoleyPoley wrote on 05/04/20 at 08:21:32:
I was wondering whether Joel Benjamin's book Liquidation on the Chess Board would also cover this. From the title it sounds like it is discussing exchanges and simplification.

I think this book is strictly about simplification to pawn endings.

But did you know Joel Benjamin goes "insane in the endgame"?  Cheesy I just found this lecture which seems to be about the same topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXCJ0i5JFGY
  

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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #5 - 05/04/20 at 08:21:32
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I was wondering whether Joel Benjamin's book Liquidation on the Chess Board would also cover this. From the title it sounds like it is discussing exchanges and simplification.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #4 - 05/04/20 at 02:22:02
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Your Kingdom For My Horse by Andy Soltis is a good treatment of this subject.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #3 - 05/04/20 at 01:37:26
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I've never looked at The Chess Toolbox, but I'm aware of these other sources:

Nesis: Tactical Chess Exchanges
Nesis: Exchanging to Win in the Endgame
Mednis: From the Middlegame Into the Endgame
Aveskulov: The Art of Exchanges (Modern Chess Database; https://www.modern-chess.com/en/middlegame-databases/database=74)

I have all of these except the first-listed Nesis book. Aveskulov refers back to the Nesis books, but also points out: 
Quote:
Yet if we look at their contents, we will find that exchanges are not categorized by their themes and their goals there. I would like to fill this gap with this database.
(from the Preview).

Even though it looks like good, high-level content, one thing that's struck me about Exchanging to Win in the Endgame is how exchanging is the right decision in virtually all the positions - Nesis apparently didn't think of including counter-examples. But how are you going to learn when it's good to exchange something from material where it's always good?!

While the Mednis book seems to target (or at least encompass) a slightly lower-rated audience, both it and the Aveskulov database helpfully include chapters/examples where avoiding exchanges is correct. But then putting them in one place already gives the game away. So I've toyed with the idea of collecting all the positions from Nesis, Mednis and Aveskulov in one database and randomizing the order, to get realistic training without such obvious hints!

Actually the reality is more complex still than just going for vs avoiding exchanges - it's possible to avoid, allow, offer or force an exchange as well as choosing between several possible exchanges to avoid, allow, offer or force.

I'm sure well-known authors of training books and endgame strategy books have adressed "the problem of exchanging" as well - you could scour the works of Dvoretsky, Aagaard, Shereshevsky, Hellsten and Müller for chapters and exercises on exchanging (and note that the works of both Dvoretsky and Müller include long-running ChessCafe columns).

For instance Aagaard on "Unforcing Play" in Excelling at Chess and Dvoretsky on "the superfluous knight", a topic later taken up by Van de Oudeweetering, Bronznik/Terekhin and others. Actually chapter VI of the Bronznik/Terekhin book Techniques of Positional Play is all about "Some aspects of piece exchanges".

Finally I can't resist mentioning Igor Smirnov's hit video on the principle "To take is a mistake" - various ways exchanging or allowing an exchange can be wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-k2fRVYeFg

(P. S.: The very similarly-titled works to the Nesis books in Russian and German are supposedly written by Razuvaev and Nesis. I don't know what happened there - maybe Nesis really was the sole author all along and Batsford insisted on being transparent about that.)
  

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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #2 - 05/04/20 at 00:16:04
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The Chess Toolbox by Thomas Willameze looks at simplification under the following categories...

Material advantage.
Better equipped for an ending
The buried piece (permanently)
The buried piece (temporarily)
Piece majority.

It is available in book format and on Chessable.....the Chessable format is going to be split into parts. The part deals with exchanges and I think exploiting the 7th which is only part of what is covered in the book...
  
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Re: Trading pieces
Reply #1 - 05/03/20 at 19:35:59
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LeeRoth wrote on 05/03/20 at 19:07:46:
Any books or DVDs that discuss the trading of pieces in the middlegame?  Realize that its is position dependent, but you do run across various rules of thumb in books and annotations, and wondering if anyone has tried to collect them in one place or do some kind of survey.  

Was thinking about this today while watching the Carlsen-Nakamura match.  Nakamura offered a rook exchange that was immediately condemned by the GM commentators on general principles:  When its two rooks against one rook, the side with two rooks should be trying to trade a pair of rooks, and the side with one rook, should be trying to keep his rook on the board.



Chris Ward in winning with the Dragon said in one of the lines black plays the Rook sac on c3 that black needs to try to avoid exchanging his final rook. I remember using his discussion of that ending to beat a 170bcf when i was graded about 110 which is why its one of all time favourite books

Your Kingdom for my horse by Andy Soltis i think talks about piece exchanges - never read it though.

I thought there was something more recent perhaps by Quality Chess....?
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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LeeRoth
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Trading pieces
05/03/20 at 19:07:46
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Any books or DVDs that discuss the trading of pieces in the middlegame?  Realize that its position dependent, but you do run across various rules of thumb in books and annotations, and wondering if anyone has tried to collect them in one place or do some kind of survey.  

Was thinking about this today while watching the Carlsen-Nakamura match.  Nakamura offered a rook exchange that was immediately condemned by the GM commentators on general principles:  When its two rooks against one rook, the side with two rooks should be trying to trade a pair of rooks, and the side with one rook should be trying to keep his rook on the board.


« Last Edit: 05/03/20 at 20:56:28 by LeeRoth »  
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