(UTC)
Latest Updates:
  ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › Daring Defences to 1. d4 › Dutch › Playing the Stonewall Dutch
(Moderators: CraigEvans, proustiskeen, Hadron)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Playing the Stonewall Dutch (Read 26937 times)
Lanark
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 50
Joined: 07/24/13
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #12 - 06/12/20 at 13:49:35
Post Tools
I agree with RoleyPoley. The flexibility of 1...e6 gives so many possibilities to play different openings. I like that, too.

And if you don't want to play the French after 1.d4 e6 2.e4, you don't have to play 2...d5. There are still the Owen (2...b6), the St. George (2...a6) and the Franco-Benoni (2...c5). The latter allows even more transpositions, for example 2...c5 3.Nf3 is a Sicilian.
There is even the outlandish Gambit 2...b5.  Shocked
Ok, these defences are not that great according to theory and the French is really much better. But I believe up to maybe 2000 or 2100 you can use some of these second moves at least occasionally if you really hate playing the French.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RoleyPoley
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 741
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #11 - 06/12/20 at 10:12:32
Post Tools
TD wrote on 06/12/20 at 08:03:51:
RoleyPoley wrote on 06/12/20 at 07:59:17:
nestor wrote on 06/11/20 at 18:38:57:
He evidently uses the move order 1.d4 e6, thereby restricting his potential readership to French defence players. I think the Stonewall would be more popular if there was a fully reliable way to reach it.

I guess it depends at what level you play at. I play via a 1.e6 move order, and i rarely get people turning it into an e4 opening.


When I still played the Caro-Kann and the Slav, I answered 1.d4 with 1...c6 41 times and (only) 5 times 2.e4 was played.

I also used 1.d4 c6 to (try to) get to the Dutch (Stonewall or Leningrad) sometimes.

When you play 1.d4 e6 you have a choice to play the Stonewall, the Classical, but even the Christmas Tree Variation of the Leningrad!  Smiley


I think that is similar to my experience. OTB over the last 5-6 years i think i have had 1 game turn into a French (I play around 20-30 per season - oddly i get more games with black pieces than white!). Perhaps about 3-4 in online games over the last 2 years (but a lot more games played across the year).

In reality, most club level players may not have the knowledge to willingly and confidently play into an e4 opening such as the French (or Caro) if they have played 1.d4 most of their lives. They may also assume that from the move order you are happy to play those e4 openings - so have little to gain from it.

Talking of flexibility, i use the e6 move order to get into not just the classical or stonewall dutch, but also the English Defence, Tarrasch and Modern Benoni! One could add presumably Nimzo, Bogo / Keres defence to these lines too.
  
"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #10 - 06/12/20 at 08:03:51
Post Tools
RoleyPoley wrote on 06/12/20 at 07:59:17:
nestor wrote on 06/11/20 at 18:38:57:
He evidently uses the move order 1.d4 e6, thereby restricting his potential readership to French defence players. I think the Stonewall would be more popular if there was a fully reliable way to reach it.

I guess it depends at what level you play at. I play via a 1.e6 move order, and i rarely get people turning it into an e4 opening.


When I still played the Caro-Kann and the Slav, I answered 1.d4 with 1...c6 41 times and (only) 5 times 2.e4 was played.

I also used 1.d4 c6 to (try to) get to the Dutch (Stonewall or Leningrad) sometimes.

When you play 1.d4 e6 you have a choice to play the Stonewall, the Classical, but even the Christmas Tree Variation of the Leningrad!  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RoleyPoley
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 741
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #9 - 06/12/20 at 07:59:17
Post Tools
nestor wrote on 06/11/20 at 18:38:57:
He evidently uses the move order 1.d4 e6, thereby restricting his potential readership to French defence players. I think the Stonewall would be more popular if there was a fully reliable way to reach it.

I guess it depends at what level you play at. I play via a 1.e6 move order, and i rarely get people turning it into an e4 opening.

His decision to play via an e6 move order doesnt surprise me too much. I think he implied in his London book that he was relatively speaking a bit of a lazy player didnt he?
  
"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #8 - 06/12/20 at 07:06:39
Post Tools
tp2205 wrote on 06/12/20 at 07:04:05:
TD wrote on 06/12/20 at 05:21:42:
H-HH wrote on 06/12/20 at 05:12:42:
I play both the French and Dutch, but the later via 1...f5. The anti-Dutch lines are not particularly dangerous, and Marin will publish a book about them (complementary to the Leningrad one).

The Anti-Dutch is the reason I usually don't play 1...f5. It's a pity because I like the Leningrad as well.

Do you have any specific line(s) you dislike?

All of them!  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tp2205
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 218
Joined: 09/11/11
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #7 - 06/12/20 at 07:04:05
Post Tools
TD wrote on 06/12/20 at 05:21:42:
H-HH wrote on 06/12/20 at 05:12:42:
I play both the French and Dutch, but the later via 1...f5. The anti-Dutch lines are not particularly dangerous, and Marin will publish a book about them (complementary to the Leningrad one).

The Anti-Dutch is the reason I usually don't play 1...f5. It's a pity because I like the Leningrad as well.


Do you have any specific line(s) you dislike? I think the main lines against the Leningrad are much more of a problem. Recently I started playing 1...f5 against Nf3, c4 and d4 and overall do much better against the Anti-Dutch systems than against main lines or quieter systems with an early queenside expansion.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #6 - 06/12/20 at 05:21:42
Post Tools
H-HH wrote on 06/12/20 at 05:12:42:
I play both the French and Dutch, but the later via 1...f5. The anti-Dutch lines are not particularly dangerous, and Marin will publish a book about them (complementary to the Leningrad one).

The Anti-Dutch is the reason I usually don't play 1...f5. It's a pity because I like the Leningrad as well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
H-HH
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 95
Location: Brasil
Joined: 03/18/06
Gender: Male
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #5 - 06/12/20 at 05:12:42
Post Tools
I play both the French and Dutch, but the later via 1...f5. The anti-Dutch lines are not particularly dangerous, and Marin will publish a book about them (complementary to the Leningrad one).
  
French defence forever, Fide 2035.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seeley
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 352
Location: UK
Joined: 04/03/10
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #4 - 06/11/20 at 21:45:27
Post Tools
nestor wrote on 06/11/20 at 18:38:57:
He evidently uses the move order 1.d4 e6, thereby restricting his potential readership to French defence players.

That was my first thought as well, but actually the Abridged Variation Index at the end of the excerpt shows that Chapter 9 (Move Orders) contains just under 30 pages of analysis of anti-Dutch lines, so the book caters for 1.f5 players too.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #3 - 06/11/20 at 19:02:43
Post Tools
I started playing the Stonewall just recently, but mostly via 1.d4 d5 2.c4/Nf3 e6 3...f5. So I never get the g3-mainlines but mostly Bf4, Bg5 and e3 stuff.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #2 - 06/11/20 at 18:54:15
Post Tools
nestor wrote on 06/11/20 at 18:38:57:
He evidently uses the move order 1.d4 e6, thereby restricting his potential readership to French defence players. I think the Stonewall would be more popular if there was a fully reliable way to reach it.

I was just talking to a friend about this. Now I must also learn the French. Wink An opening I absolutely disgust...  Embarrassed
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nestor
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 137
Location: London
Joined: 05/10/09
Gender: Male
Re: Playing the Stonewall Dutch
Reply #1 - 06/11/20 at 18:38:57
Post Tools
He evidently uses the move order 1.d4 e6, thereby restricting his potential readership to French defence players. I think the Stonewall would be more popular if there was a fully reliable way to reach it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
God Member
*****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 625
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Playing the Stonewall Dutch
06/11/20 at 13:52:08
Post Tools
An excerpt of this new book by Sedlak.

https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/PlayingtheStonewallDutch-excerpt.pdf
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 
Topic Tools
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ChessPub Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge