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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined (Read 13825 times)
cathexis
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #24 - 06/02/21 at 12:34:29
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Other obligations kept me from going over your reply as soon as I would of liked. Accept my thanks for this advice. It gives me some ideas for the future!
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #23 - 05/31/21 at 01:08:34
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@cathexis

Some openings are extra-tactical from their very first tabiya, like the Traxler variation or the Botvinnik Semi-Slav. Some openings start as relatively positional and mostly stay that way, like the exchange Slav, though you can certainly attack on the wing using the semi-static center.

To some extent it's typical of every opening to become more tactical as the game progresses, since (1) as the pieces are developed and come into contact, more tactics become possible, and (2) as the game progresses, the board gets more open, so there are more squares for the pieces to move to and more to calculate.

The deceptive positional-looking beginning and subsequent explosive transformations in the French, however, go beyond that. These things do happen in  other openings, of course, like the King's Indian, but are particularly common in certain French lines. Here's a typical illustration (this game is not theory after move 10).
 
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. c3 c5 6. f4 Nc6 7. Ndf3 Qb6 8. h4. It looks at first like a strategically clear game. White has built and defended a huge center--for example, the d-pawn is attacked three times and defended three times.  White now decides to take advantage of his central control by launching a wing attack. He sees that Black, lacking central space, can neither get many defending pieces to the kingside quickly nor easily castle queenside. 8...cxd4 9. cxd4 Bb4+! 10. Kf2 (The first hint of trouble. White has to move his king because 10. Bd2 Nxd4 11. Nxd4 Qxd4 just loses the d-pawn). 10... f6 Black, instead of defending, tries to reduce White's center. Will it be enough? 11. Bd3? White doesn't think so. He is not impressed and develops another attacking piece. He intends to play Rh1-h3, hide his king on h2, bring his other pieces over toward the kingside, and gradually overwhelm Black. He should at least, however, have gotten his king off the f-file first. 11...Nxd4!? Black sacrifices a knight to destroy the White center! (Actually, he misses an even better version, the winning 11... fxe5 12. fxe5 Ndxe5! 13.Nxe5 Qxd4+ 14. Be3 Qxb2+ 15. Ne2 Qxe5, which wins his knight back while keeping three pawns). 12. Nxd4 fxe5 13. fxe5 Nxe5 14. Bc2 14...Ng6 threatens to win the pinned Nd4 with ...e5. 15. Bxg6+ hxg6. Now just look--our apparently strategic game has turned into an open, unbalanced shootout where Black has two mobile central passed pawns for the knight but his kingside is wrecked, while neither king will be particularly safe.
« Last Edit: 05/31/21 at 16:54:22 by ReneDescartes »  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #22 - 05/29/21 at 14:05:18
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edgy wrote on 05/27/21 at 15:58:47:
The thing is, though, in the books he says that he was a 20-something 2300-rated FM when he started seriously working on his repertoire with a Russian trainer and all. When he wrote the book, he was... a 30-something 2300-rated FM. So, does putting in a lot of repertoire work result in tangible improvement at that level? Apparently not.

I'm not so sure. From around the time when he started work with his Russian trainer, Giddins went from 2255 to 2370 in three years. He then stayed at around that level for another three years before falling back to his previous level. So something enabled him to make a substantial, albeit temporary, improvement. If he says it was his improved opening repertoire, plus the confidence that went with that, I'd hesitate to argue. 

But I agree with aoc that the book doesn't live up to its title.
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #21 - 05/29/21 at 14:04:41
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I would like to ask you Rene,

How much of what you just said is typical of most middlegame play and how much specific to the French variations you mentioned? By saying, "explode" I get the impression (perhaps correctly or not?) that you're implying some openings often begin sort of quiescent, then become aggressive later. Or perhaps, at first positional, then more sharply tactical. Whether I'm right or not, I'm hoping you might elaborate on this and perhaps list some openings or variations that often have these qualities - if that is your point? Sounds very interesting.

As Always - Thanks!

Cathexis
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #20 - 05/29/21 at 03:49:21
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If 1.e4 e5 is for fun, why did Carlsen use it in all his games against Karjakin's 1.e4 in New York, including Carlsen's decisive victory in the third rapid game? Surely that was for blood. On the other hand, a nearly undeclinable gambit with a clear refutation but a low percentage of draws may be entertaining, but it's not suitable when you really need to win.

Major openings each have many faces, but having played the French most of my life, I would emphasize that  many lines of the French Winawer, Classical, McCutcheon, and 3...Nf6 Tarrasch tend to be strategic only at first--they can explode into their own special kind of  irrational chaos in the middlegame. It's a counterattacking game. "Do not play this opening if you are afraid of being attacked," someone (Fine? Keene?) said.
« Last Edit: 05/29/21 at 13:14:38 by ReneDescartes »  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #19 - 05/28/21 at 15:30:29
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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/28/21 at 11:41:52:
I've never been tempted to play the Caro-Kann (recently mentioned) as black, but have learned to respect it as white.

While I respect 1...c6 at least as much as every other first move my attitude towards it is the same as towards the Sicilian: chess for blood. My results are mixed but the drawing rate is low.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #18 - 05/28/21 at 11:41:52
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I remember the title of a book: Chess for Fun and Chess for Blood.

https://www.amazon.com/Chess-Fun-Blood-Edward-Lasker/dp/0486201465/ref=sr_1_2?cr...

I've applied the title to openings:
Double king pawn openings - chess for fun.
Sicilian defense - chess for blood.

So much is clear to me. I think of the French defense as "a thinking man's opening." It corresponds best to the public perception of chess, two players taking their time, making deep strategic judgements.

I've never been tempted to play the Caro-Kann (recently mentioned) as black, but have learned to respect it as white. It is a great example of positional chess. It provides for the placement of both bishops, neither "bad," development of both knights, flexible posting of the queen, castling and connection of rooks. Perhaps it is a reverse chameleon opening, as white can choose an attacking variation, or some other approach that suits his style. "Chess for positional chess players" is a little too obscure for the general public to readily grasp.
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #17 - 05/28/21 at 07:44:31
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Some good points being raised. It is difficult to make the decision on a repertoire to follow but is that the problem ? The goal I suggest is to achieve positions that you feel comfortable with, that make you want to work at them after a game and that you can develop a feel for. The chosen repertoire doesn't have to be a lifetime-lasting decision but there needs to be enough commitment to it to make it worthwhile. For me, it's always made sense to use a repertoire book or Chessable repertoire, as a starting point. These guys are usually considerably stronger than us, so why not use their advice ? Individual lines can be changed, maybe when you purchase a new repertoire book based on the same opening. Updates happen by your own experience and also by obtaining new information.
Developing within an opening system is always a good idea I believe, to take advantage of previous knowledge and experience e.g. of sidelines that don't change when you switch to a new main line in the same opening. Finding the line to stick with depends on many factors e.g. how strong you are, how experienced, how much time you have or want to spend on preparation and ultimately, personal taste.
For me, 1.e4 e5 needs to be played seriously as black for a period, as I believe it benefits your game. Then experimentation can lead to where you feel at home, for me the Caro Kann.
It took me a long time to decide how to answer 1.d4, as I wanted a basically universal system, ruling out the Nimzo. I've come to 1.d4 d5 but with a solid base (QGD) and an adventurous alternative (Noteboom).
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #16 - 05/27/21 at 19:03:30
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edgy wrote on 05/27/21 at 15:58:47:
The thing is, though, in the books he says that he was a 20-something 2300-rated FM when he started seriously working on his repertoire with a Russian trainer and all. When he wrote the book, he was... a 30-something 2300-rated FM. So, does putting in a lot of repertoire work result in tangible improvement at that level? Apparently not.

This is an astute observation. We can ask similar questions whenever some amateur reviews for example some ChessBase product (even the ChessBase database itself!), saying how valuable or even essential the product will be for making progress. The same thing they said in a previous review, meanwhile none of these products have helped the reviewer in any way. Not picking on ChessBase here, it could be a video course, some tactics training, or whatever. The latest hot must-have is chessable, but we will see how many players actually get anywhere using it.

Sticking with the example of Giddins, it seems the logical possibilities are:
  1. Future improvement is completely unrelated to work on the opening repertoire. In this case the Russian trainer gave canned but useless advice, without considering the individual needs of the player. That's an all too common occurrence in chess lessons, but we don't know that's the case here. Giddins at least felt the advice was worth following.
  2. Work on the repertoire was a necessary but not a sufficient condition for chess improvement. Without it the player could not advance, but after all was held back by something else that also needed doing. This is a big problem for adults with limited time, especially when it sometimes seems like *every* part of the game needs work, all at the same time!
  3. The repertoire was the crucial issue indeed, but the work on the repertoire was defective in some way. It needed more work, or better work, or in a different direction, or all of the above.

So which one was it? Here is where science lets us down, because if we are each an "experiment of one", it becomes hard to draw general conclusions from a series of unrelated observations.
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #15 - 05/27/21 at 15:58:47
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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/26/21 at 21:10:37:


Perhaps:
How To Build Your Chess Opening Repertoire, by Steve Giddins
http://gambitbooks.com/books/How_to_Build_Your_Chess_Opening_Repertoire.html


I really liked that book when it came out, and for a while I was referring to it a lot, but eventually one thing really bothered me. 

Normally, I don't mind books where the author isn't super-strong, and in fact for this kind of thing, an FM author is fine since that title was the limit of my ambition.

The thing is, though, in the books he says that he was a 20-something 2300-rated FM when he started seriously working on his repertoire with a Russian trainer and all. When he wrote the book, he was... a 30-something 2300-rated FM. So, does putting in a lot of repertoire work result in tangible improvement at that level? Apparently not.
  

Caissa have mercy on a miserable patzer: http://altergoniff.blogspot.com
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #14 - 05/27/21 at 00:00:05
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FreeRepublic wrote on 05/26/21 at 21:10:37:
Perhaps:
How To Build Your Chess Opening Repertoire, by Steve Giddins
http://gambitbooks.com/books/How_to_Build_Your_Chess_Opening_Repertoire.html

I was disappointed in that one. It goes into great detail on why you should, but is very skimpy on how to actually do it.
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #13 - 05/26/21 at 21:10:37
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 02/24/21 at 15:39:39:
The one course they should be offering is "Complete Guide to Creating an Opening Repertoire"


Perhaps:
How To Build Your Chess Opening Repertoire, by Steve Giddins
http://gambitbooks.com/books/How_to_Build_Your_Chess_Opening_Repertoire.html
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #12 - 05/25/21 at 11:59:05
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Ah ok!
That is a lot indeed. 

I don't think it's a main line for GM's but I think the main attraction of the variation for books/amateurs is that it is relatively easy to play and learn. 
But as Laramonet pointed out it can quickly lead to rather lifeless positions where you need to play with the skill of Kramnik to get something going for black.
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #11 - 05/25/21 at 09:49:29
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Konstriktor wrote on 05/25/21 at 09:16:20:
Which QGD's book do you see?
I think only Colovic and Ntirlis advocate Kramnik's set up.
Marin goes for the Tartakower and there hasn't been much else of lately on the QGD I think?


At least two others have it (although one is a Nimzo book):

https://www.newinchess.com/play-1-d4-d5-2-c4-e6
https://www.newinchess.com/the-modernized-nimzo
  
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Re: Lifetime Repertoires: Queen's Gambit Declined
Reply #10 - 05/25/21 at 09:16:20
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Which QGD's book do you see?
I think only Colovic and Ntirlis advocate Kramnik's set up.
Marin goes for the Tartakower and there hasn't been much else of lately on the QGD I think?
  
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