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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3 (Read 8324 times)
Markovich
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #10 - 01/18/12 at 11:43:41
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Generally in these sorts of positions, neither dxe5 nor d5 is the ticket.  If Black shifted his f8 rook to e8, that would perhaps be a good excuse to play d5.
  
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #9 - 01/18/12 at 10:08:27
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Call me stupid, but I don't see that edge after 11.Qa4 f5 12.exf5 (practically forced) Nxf5 and 13...Nf6. Black will finish development and be fine.
  
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #8 - 01/18/12 at 00:31:41
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No not really, I wont dispute that you might equalise, but a move like 11.Qa4 will keep a nagging edge. The problem is that unlike a KID for some reason the strucure is different as your kingside is much more vulnerable and the knights cant do their KID business.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #7 - 01/18/12 at 00:08:18
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Eh? I'd say that after 9.d5 Ne7 10.Nbd2 O-O Black is completely ready for ...f5.
  
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #6 - 01/17/12 at 23:49:42
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After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 h6 5.0-0 d6 6.c3 g6 7.d4 Nd7!? 8.Be3 Bg7 Why not 9.d5?
In the Hungarian and TKD I have played similar positions and it is usually very easy: Black can do very little and you can strengthen your position at leisure as every active break is usually a problem. Ie a move like f5 or c6 is more problematic than in the KID.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #5 - 01/17/12 at 18:12:14
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/16/12 at 21:23:30:
It's interesting that neither Emms nor Psakhis, the two highest rated players to have reached this position (after 7...Nd7)  in my database, exchanged on e5. They both maintained the tension,

I was actually playing White in this game and it never occurred to me to capture on e5, it seems illogical after having gone to so much trouble setting up a strong pawn centre!
I did wonder whether 9 Qd2 (which was played by Danny Gormally against David Howell a couple of years ago) wasn't a bit too ambitious, and expected 9...Nb6 (in the game my opponent played 9...Na5 and ...c5 and was soon clearly worse, whereas David Howell preferred 9...Qe7). I did think about playing Na3, and Psakhis' a4 also makes sense.
In my opinion 7...Nd7 is clearly playable, although probably not as good as 7...Qe7 as it not only moves a developed piece twice, it also relieves the pressure on e4 and moves a well-placed piece to the queenside when Black is planning to play on the kingside.
  
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #4 - 01/17/12 at 04:39:12
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How about (after 7...Nd7) 8.Qb3 Qe7 9. Bd3 in anticipation of the possibilities f5, Nf6 or Nb6 with tempo? The queen is also a bit awkward on the e-file where it will likely face a white rook. Does this run into trouble somewhere down the line?
  
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Re: C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #3 - 01/16/12 at 21:23:30
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It's interesting that neither Emms nor Psakhis, the two highest rated players to have reached this position (after 7...Nd7)  in my database, exchanged on e5. They both maintained the tension, by Be3 in Emms case, and by a4!? in Psakhis' case. I don't think Emms' loss was due to the opening.
  
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Re: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #2 - 01/16/12 at 19:55:53
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You might be interested in the game Emms-Howell 2008 which continued:

8.  Be3 Bg7 9.  Qc1 Qe7 10.  Re1 Nf6 11.  Bd5 Nb8 12.  Na3 g5 13.  dxe5 (Howell later suggested 13. Bb3 as better for White - 13...Nxe4!? 14. Qc2 f5 (...Bf5 15. Bd5! )15. dxe5 dxe5 16. Bd5) dxe5 14.  Qc2 Nxd5 15.  exd5 O-O 16.  Nc4 f6! and Black went on to win the game.
  
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Re: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
Reply #1 - 01/16/12 at 17:02:11
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 01/16/12 at 14:51:34:
If white does "nothing" (just standard developing moves) then black will probably go ...

Black still will have to decide what to do with Bc8.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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C55: Two knights: Bc4 & d3
01/16/12 at 14:51:34
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I have come up with a new line in this established variation as early as on move 7. It goes as follows: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 h6 5.0-0 d6 6.c3 g6 7.d4 Nd7!?
The purpose is obviously to be able to give extra protection to the critical e5 square, and to be able to re-take with piece on e5. Also after a subsequent Bg7 the d4 pawn is under attack, so white then cannot play his usual Ruy-Lopez like Nbd2. If white does "nothing" (just standard developing moves) then black will probably go Bg7, 0-0, Kh7, f5 with complex play. After de5: at some stage black can retake with the pawn or with the Nd7.  
I had a recent game with this line which I lost; white went 8.Be3 Bg7 9.Qd2!? to stop black from castling. A dangerous plan. At this stage I probably should have played 9. ... Nb6 with the ideas (a) 10.Bb5 a6 11.Bc6:+ bc6: 12.de5: Nc4 13.Qe2 Ne5:; (b) 10.Bb3 Na5 11.Na3 Bg4 or maybe 10. ... Bg4 straight away; 11.Be2 f5!?, in all cases with complex play. 
The manoevre Nf6-d7 with possible Nb6 to follow is quite standard in a lot or closed Ruy Lopez lines.
Any comments are most welcome!
« Last Edit: 01/16/12 at 21:20:38 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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