Honey, I'm home...

Not been here for over a year, looks like I've got a lot to catch up on...

I'm pretty sure the Muzio is busted, however black has to do damn well to remember all of the analysis and sidelines and traps, so I don't think people would shy away from it as white.

The simple antidote to 4.Bc4 has been brought up here (and elsewhere) many times - 4...Bg7, and white has still not found a good way to crack the Hanstein. 

My advice would be to look at 4.Nc3 - the Quaade Gambit is much less well-known, and people are a lot less reluctant to shove their pawn to g4 when there's no bishop shooting at f7. 4.Nc3 Nc6 and 4.Nc3 Bg7 are, of course, still fine for black (although the Hamppe-Allgaier is probably just about playable below master level or against unprepared opponents, and it's quite rare in my experience to see 4.Nc3 met by 4...Bg7), but I think you'd find in practice that you got quite a lot of 4...g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+, which I still think can lead to an edge for white.

I never thought I'd see myself agreeing with TopNotch, but I don't think the KG is the way to get results at any serious level... that said, my record on the black side of the opening is anything but inspiring - one of my few published games in a local newspaper was a 14 move defeat against a Welsh FM on the black side of a Muzio (albeit with 2.Nc3 Nc6 inserted - who'd have thought it made such a difference?!).

Still, if you enjoy playing for fun then you could do far, far worse than the KG. Anyone below 1800 who practices 1.d4, 2.Nf3, 3.e3 etc, should be banned from chess forever. 

Thanks, David, for the input. Actually, I wasn't interested in that line that Paul gave, so perhaps I should have left it out and just stuck with the idea I was trying to confront: "I don't know of any other Kieseritsky lines where White is struggling too much [as long as he plays 6.Bc4! after 5.Ne5 Nf6] - can anyone correct me?"
I gave an recent example from high-level play in the Kieseritzky where White was not just struggling but was smashed; and was wondering if anyone had theory on wher

[quote author=cma6 link=1051657971/180#183 date=1180914777]Finally the Kieseritsky. I'd imagine that not many Black players would want to risk sacrificing lots of material with 3...g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 8.d4 Nh5 9.Bb5+ c6 10.dxc6 bxc6 11.Nxc6 Nxc6 12.Bxc6+ Kf8 13.Bxa8. 

The line you quote was played in a very famous game played in the nineteenth century and annotated in many places. You can find out who it was between for yourself. 

However  there are two points worth noting.

1. 10... Nc6 is more accurate but transposes. In three games in an ICCF fixed openings tournament 
I played 12..Bd7 rather than Kf8 and scored 2.5 from three games. I analysed these games for Australian Correspondence Chess Quarterly. If I can find my article I will post it here.

Finally the Kieseritsky. I'd imagine that not many Black players would want to risk sacrificing lots of material with 3...g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 8.d4 Nh5 9.Bb5+ c6 10.dxc6 bxc6 11.Nxc6 Nxc6 12.Bxc6+ Kf8 13.Bxa8. Furthermore, if White can find a way of surviving this particular line, he might be OK in the Kieseritsky (I don't know of any other Kieseritsky lines where White is struggling too much [as long as he plays 6.Bc4! after 5.Ne5 Nf6] - can anyone correct me?). Again, we want a new topic here...
Are there any more lines where White might be worried?
Regards,
Paul Cumbers [/quote]

Paul, consider the line below:

Former correspondence World Champion Vytas Palciauskas gave us all an opening lesson in this KG line in CCLA-Palciauska 2004-2005: 1e4, e5; 2 f4, exf; 3 Nf3, g5; (These moves were mandated). 4 h4, g4; 5 Ne5, Nf6; 6 Bc4, d5; 7 exd, Bd6; 8 d4, 0-0; 9 Bxf4, Nh5; 10 g3, f6; 11 Nxg4, Qe8ch; 12 Kd2, Nxf4; 13 gxf, Qe4; (By now, it was clear to me that White was worse) 14 Kxc3, b5; 15 Bxb5, Kh8; 16 Na3, c5; 17 dxc (I was ready to resign as White here), Nxc6; 18 Bxc6, Qxc6ch; 19 Nc4, Ba6; 20 b3, Bxc4; 21 bxc, Rab8; 22 a3, Bxf4; 23 Rf1, Qc7; 24 Kd3, f5; 25 Rxf4 and Black won shortly.
  Any ideas where White went wrong? 

13...f5 14.g3 Qe7 15.Nxd6 cxd6 16.Qf1 Kg7 17.Nd3 Qe3+ (what about Black's queen's wing?) 18.Kh2 Qe2+ 19.Rf2 maintains some advantage.

IM Tait, you may quote me in your book.  

In answer to the question in your next post: Mark Nieuweboer. It is no secret.

So the question arises if Black can deviate.
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 8.d4 o-o 9.Nc3 Qe7 (Re8 10.Bxf4 Nh5 11.o-o Qxh4 12.Ne4 Nxf4 13.Rxf4 and White has a clear lead in development) 10.o-o (10.Bxf4 Nh5 11.o-o Nxf4 12.Rxf4 f6 wins the exchange and I don't think White will get enough compensation) Bxe5 (Nh5?! 11.Nxg4 Ng3 12.Re1 compared the main line White has an extra move; f3 11.Re1 fxg2 12.Bh6 with a clear advantage) 11.dxe5 Qc5+ 12.Kh2 Nh5 (Qxc4?? 13.Rxf4 wins) 13.e6!? and how to judge this?
If I say "unclear", then Tarrasch will rebuke me because I have to analyse deeper; if I analyse deeper then Botvinnik will rebuke me and say "long analysis, wrong analysis".

Quote:

At move 25 the team was playing for a draw. 25.Ne3 was dismissed in view of 25...Bxe3+ 26.Kxe3 Rg8! E.g. 27.Rf3 and now both 27...Rg4 and 27...Qxc4 seems to win for Black.
I think you mean 12.Kf2. Yes this now seems better than 12.Kd2, though I don't think White has much after 12...Nxf4 13.gxf4 Qe4 14.Rg1 (14.Ne3 Bxf4) 14...Qxf4+ 15.Qf3 Qxd4+ 16.Qe3 Bc5 17.Qxd4 Bxd4+ 18.Ne3+ Kh8

Quote:


I was rather hoping to keep the following game out of the databases but since you guys are being so nice...

Agermose Jensen,M - Knudsen,J [C39]
Danish Ch Køge (2), 25.03.2005

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 8.d4 Nh5 9.Nc3 Qe7 10.Kd2 Bxe5 11.Re1 0-0! 12.dxe5 Qc5 13.Bd3 Ng3 14.Ne4 Nxe4+ 15.Rxe4 Qxd5 16.Qf1! f5? 1-0
Black resigned because he thought he had blundered his queen. Still, White has very good comp after the subtle 16.Qf1 and almost winning after 16...f5?
Riemann's move 9...0-0 (or 8...0-0 9.Nc3 Nh5) is met by 10.Ne4. Fortunately the books mostly give 10.Nxg4? as in the horrendous 12-mover Arizmendi-Grischuk, Reykjavik 2000. 10.Ne2 is also condemned in Informator and ECO but they give the wrong refutation.

But McDonald does not agree with Gallagher after 4.c3 Bb6! 5.Na3 Nf6 6.fxe5 dxe5 and refers to the game Hector-Giorgadze, La Coruna 1995. Black won.