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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C30-C39: Death of King's Gambit (Read 158526 times)
Fernando Semprun
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #54 - 04/10/04 at 12:40:56
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Those Jenssen articles were mediocre at best, everybody mentioning Gallagher-Arlandi, Grasso-Pampa, etc... Well, the truth can be seen by the fact that Gallagher no longer plays the KG but the Tromp! As for new, independant analysys... I have not seen much here
  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #53 - 04/10/04 at 09:51:21
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In the Quaade (1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3) after 4...Nc6 couldn't White transpose to the fairly respectable Hamppe-Allgaier Gambit with 5.h4 g4 6.Ng5?  I have to confess to not remembering (or never knowing?) what the Pierce Gambit is.
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #52 - 04/10/04 at 09:02:11
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I really don't get the point of 3.Nh3.   ???
  
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Wonderer
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #51 - 04/10/04 at 06:52:48
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Though the Hamppe-Allgaier perhaps just might be playable...

I'm beginning to lean towards 3.Nf3 ?! myself, since soon we'll be left discussing the Ghullam Khassim and other minor variations previously judged inferior...

Though it would be a funny twist if 3.Nh3!? turns out to be the new main line in a decade or so!  Grin Cheesy
  
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MNb
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #50 - 04/10/04 at 06:27:08
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The best reply to Quaade's 4.Nc3 is Nc6 as the Pierce Gambit is close to refutation.
  

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Glenn Snow
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #49 - 04/09/04 at 13:09:24
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I've always had a soft spot for these romantic gambits also.  Your post highlights just how well Black has to be prepared to play 3...g5.  In the Quaade Black may be better off playing a different move than 4...g4 with White commited to Nc3 (not that Nc3 is necessarily bad).  I'm definitely going to keep the Ne3 move in mind.    In the Rosentreter I thought (after 6...Nc6) that 7.d5 was supposed to lead to unresolved complications (perhaps this has been refuted now).  AFter 6...d5 I like 7.Nc3 (not to sure about 7.Be5).  Would like to see how your game went with 6...d5.
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #48 - 04/09/04 at 11:24:03
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On IECC a few weeks back I finished three thematic KG events against a 2000+ player, in lines considered "dubious" these days. The lines were the Quaade Gambit 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 (4.Nc3 g4 5.Ne5), Rosentreter Gambit (4.d4 g4 5.Bxf4) and Allgaier Gambit (4.h4 g4 5.Ng5 h6 6.Nxf7). While, obviously, I am not perfect and therefore the statistics wont reflect the standing of the openings, this is what happened:

In the Quaade, I won with white and drew with black.
In the Rosentreter I lost with white and won with black.
In the Allgaier I drew with both white and black.

The Quaade gambit has been neglected for many years, but the new move that both myself and my opponent used, after 5...Qh4+ 6.g3 fxg3 7.Qxg4 Qxg4 8.Nxg4 d5, 9.Ne3!, seems to offer white good chances. 

The Rosentreter has always been considered, on the other hand, almost respectable, yet as white I got nowhere after 5...gxf3 6.Qxf3 Nc6 7.Bc4 Qh4+ 8.g3 Nxd4 9.Qd3 Qf6 10.Nc3 Ne7 11.O-O-O c5 12.e5 Qg6 13.Ne4 Nec6 14.c3 Ne6 15.Nf6+ Kd8, even though my initial feeling was that white should be okay here. My opponent tried instead 7.c3 and got even less play. Furthermore, in my only OTB encounter with this opening (on the black side, even though I play the KG myself), I played 6...d5 without knowing what I was doing and still managed to survive the onslaught.

The Allgaier has recently had hope given up on it. Harding wrote it off in his kibitzer articles on it, and Gallagher said he had been unable to rescue the line in WWTKG. I played (as white), what Harding claimed was the last hope for the line, and managed to draw fairly comfortably, in the endgame white may even have been slightly better. On the other hand, black played into the old line 7.d4 f3 8.Bc4+ d5 9.Bxd5+ Kg7 10.gf Nf6 11.Nc3 Bb4, which Gallagher assesses as -/+, yet as black I had to find some accurate moves just to survive the middlegame, and then found myself in a drawn K, R, N + 3 against K, R + 4 endgame.

What is the moral of all this? I'm not sure... however, the Quaade gambit is certainly worth a shot, as the number of people who will play into the trap after 5...Qh4+ 6.g3 fxg3 7.Qxg4 with 7...g2+?? 8.Qxh4 gxh1=Q 9.Qh5! +- is astounding in my experience, and white still gets good chances after 7...Qxg4 8.Nxg4. The Rosentreter should be more dangerous, yet I found it very hard to get anything going with it in correspondence.

Regards, 
Craig Grin
  

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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #47 - 04/08/04 at 20:56:11
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Looking at one (the first I think) of M.Jensen's articles I noticed that he briefly mentioned (after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5) 4.Bc4 and 4.d4, saying that White would still have to deal with 4...Bg7.  While I definetly think that 4...Bg7 is the strongest answer to 4.Bc4, I have my doubts that is best against 4.d4.  After 4.d4 Bg7 5.h4 I believe Black has 2 main tries: A)5...g4, allows a favorable transposition to 4.h4 since ...Bg7 isn't supposed to be one of the better replies.  B)5...h6 transposes to the Becker variation.  I think White's best might be 6.g3 g4 7.Nh2 fxg3 8.Ng4 d6 9.c3 Nf6 10.Nf6 Qf6 11.Be3 Nc6 12.Nd2.  Of course there are several alternatives for both sides.  Anyway, I wrote all of that just to say that I think the Rosentreter is a good practical weapon for the club player.  (assuming there isn't a published refutation that I'm not aware of).  Certainly facing the gambit would take strong nerves.  I for one have a 100% score in slow time controls with the Rosentreter.  Perhaps someday I'll play a second game with it.  Grin
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #46 - 04/07/04 at 15:52:17
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I find it intersting to explore unusual variations.  But if you're looking for something for your opening repertoire then 1.e4 e5 2.f4 gxf4 3.Nh3 is very hard to recommend.  I'd say after 3...Qh4+ 4.Nf2 Nc6 White is struggling for equality and not likely to reach it.
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #45 - 04/07/04 at 04:52:51
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3.Nh3? must be stupid move. Developing with Nf6! emmidiatelly should only be one off many refutation.  Grin

It's pity the debate is on such low level, when so many intresting variations can be found in the mainlines  Sad


3.Nh3 has been played by some strong players, including Tartakower. He felt that while it was inferior to 3.Nf3, it should still be playable, and results tend to indicate that white is okay. 

People have discussed the main lines plenty, but many people find enjoyment in considering something a little more unorthodox. It's a pity that some people refuse to open their minds to these alternatives...

Regards, 
Craig  Grin
  

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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #44 - 04/05/04 at 10:35:07
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What's the internet address to download those KG articles, please?

http://ccn.correspondencechess.com/

(then click on CCN Archive)
  
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Fernando Semprun
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #43 - 04/05/04 at 08:38:04
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What's the internet address to download those KG articles, please?
  

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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #42 - 04/04/04 at 16:13:07
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Ask Johansson himself - you can find his email adress on his site and in his book.
  

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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #41 - 04/04/04 at 14:05:20
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Well the first point that Should be made is that anyone who is interested in the Kieseritzy Gambit should download the 
articles in issues 45,51 and 52 of the free Internet magazine Correspondence Chess News. There is a tremendous mass of detailed analysis.


Many thanks for the above - reading those articles has definitely revived my interest in the Kieseritzky! Against the Berlin Defence (5...Nf6), Jensen makes 6.Bc4! look respectable again. I particularly like the line 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 7.exd5 Bd6 8.d4 Nh5 9.Nc3! and then 9...Qe7 10.Kd2!?.

However, trouble has surfaced from another angle - Thomas Johansson has written a follow-up article which puts into question Jensen's 9.Bb5 in the Hungarian Defence (i.e. 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 d6 6.Nxg4 Nf6 7.Nxf6+ Qxf6 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.Bb5). Put these sunglasses on 8) in preparation for the ghastly background colour:

http://hem.passagen.se/tjmisha/dasboot.html

The article convinces me that Black has all the chances after 9...Kd8! Sad
Johansson thinks White should abandon 8.Nc3 in favour of something like 8.d4, 8.Qe2, or 8.Qf3. Does anyone know of any games / analysis with these 8th move alternatives?
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #40 - 02/26/04 at 07:21:30
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3.Nh3? must be stupid move. Developing with Nf6! emmidiatelly should only be one off many refutation.  Grin

It's pity the debate is on such low level, when so many intresting variations can be found in the mainlines  Sad
  
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