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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Coverage of the Blumenfeld (Read 5687 times)
MNb
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #40 - 06/11/06 at 01:50:38
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As I have not found anything decent after 10.Ng5 (instead of 10.Ne4?) it looks like I have been lucky. Indeed anything other than 7...Nbd7 fails to the plan e2-e4.
I do not like withholding d7-d5. The bishop is on e7 less active than on d6.
  

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HgMan
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #39 - 06/10/06 at 12:59:11
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I always thought that Black was okay if White accepted the gambit pawn, but checking the database on the line you mentioned came as a surprise!  Shocked  I don't know why we were even bothering to discuss 5 Bg5!  The numbers look devastating, and Przewoznik doesn't offer much help after 6 ... d5 7 Nc3.  Each line looks depressing, though I, too, want to go back to MNb's game.

But Przewoznik's analysis of 6 ... Bb7 looks interesting, and might be a useful way to sidestep some of the problems after the line you mentioned.  I need to look at this move more carefully, but 6 ... Bb7 7 Nc3 Be7, withholding d7-d5 might be okay...
  

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Scholar
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #38 - 06/10/06 at 04:26:25
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Scholar wrote on 06/02/06 at 08:01:36:
5.dxe6 fxe6 6.cxb5 d5 7.Nc3 Nbd7 8.e4 d4 9.e5 Ng4 instead of 10.Ne4? Bb7! it looks like White has a number of moves which need to be checked more carefully.  This looks to be a weak point of the entire Blumenfeld as far as I can see, mainly because Black seems to lack good alternatives at move 7, and his earlier deviations do not appeal to me as much (postponing d5 or playing an early a6).

I would like to rule out White's alternatives at move 9 and 10, but things are not yet clear.  For example, the sequence 10.Ng5 Ndxe5 11.f4 dxc3 12.Qxd8+ Kxd8 13.fxe5 seems to be virtually forced from Black's perspective, and at the end, he is left in a difficult position where his pawns are weak and obstruct his pieces.


I'm still a bit unsure how I will meet the accepted lines, especially 7.Nc3 where White is really threatening to blow Black off the board after e4.  Perhaps it is all explained in the annotations to MNb's game...but I can't see how Black can save the 7...Nbd7 line.  Dare I ask what others have chosen here?  7...Be7 hoping to survive even after x...d4?

Is there another way out here that I've overlooked?
  
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #37 - 06/10/06 at 04:11:53
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I'm not a fan of Black's structure after 7...d6 8.Bxf6 gxf6.  If White plays simple chess, starting with 9.e3, I don't think that Black can mobilize quickly enough to take advantage of the queenside space or half-open g-file before White consolidates.  The variations may prove me wrong, but if White can play a4 and post a knight on f4, he will sit very nicely.
  
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HgMan
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #36 - 06/09/06 at 20:50:55
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HgMan wrote on 06/01/06 at 21:57:46:


I think MNb's line might be the best way out of the thicket.  I just posted on the Nimzo thread on 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 c5 4 d5 b5 5 Bg5 exd5 6 cxd5 h6 7 Bxf6 Qxf6 8 Qc2! (maybe it doesn't deserve a "!" but I think it's markedly stronger than 7 Nc3).  So:

1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 c5 4 d5 b5 5 Bg5 exd5 6 cxd5 Qa5+ 7 Nc3

I'm not sure that 6 ... Qa5+ 7 Nc3 resolves any of Black's queenside problems.  I like 7 ... Be7 8 d6 Bd8, which turns out okay if Black can find some way to activate his/her queenside pieces.  But look at 7 ... Be7 8 Qd2! 0-0 9 d6 Bd8 10 Bxf6 Bxf6 11 Nd5 Qxd2+ 12 Nxd2; Black is really hurting!

Instead: 6 ... Qa5+ 7 Nc3 d6 (which Black has to play at some point anyway...) 8 Bxf6 gxf6 9 Qd3 c4 10 Qe4+ Be7 and Black might even have a reasonable game on the queenside, so long as the fractured pawn structure on the kingside doesn't become too serious a liability.  I suppose an alternative to 9 ... c4 is 9 ... Bd7, but I'm not sure I want to pin down my pieces to passive defense.  Having said that, I'm worried about 11 Nd4 when the f5 square looks vulnerable.  11 Nd4 b4 12 Nd1 f5 13 Nxf5 Bxf5 14 Qxf5 Nd7 15 e3 c3 16 bxc3 bxc3.  Black may have some compensation for the pawn, but I'm not sure I would like to play Black here...


I still like 7 ... d6 here.  Does anyone see any problems for Black?
  

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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #35 - 06/05/06 at 20:10:44
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22 Bc4 looks a little more persuasive than 22 Rd1 (bishops before rooks!  Wink).  22 ... Qf4 23 Bd5 Rc8 24 g3 and 0-0 to follow.  I like that White's position comes together with tempo in each case.

That said, 20 ... Nc6 looks better than my 20 ... Qe8...
  

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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #34 - 06/05/06 at 05:16:30
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HgMan wrote on 06/03/06 at 22:38:46:
That may be playable, but I was worried about:

18 Qxg7 Qf8 19 Qg5+ Ke8 20 Qe5+ Kd8 21 d6! Qe8 22 Qg5+ f6 23 Qxf6+ Kc8 24 f3

White still needs to find a home for his/her bishop and activate those rooks, but I'm not crazy about Black's pawn on c5...



Who needs the pawn on c5, after 19.Qe5+ Kd8 (reaching your line a move faster) 20.d6 Nc6 21.Qxc5 Qh6 22.Rd1 Qe6 and Black can start hunting some pawns...

I'm not sure I understand 21....Qe8 which gives White the f-pawn with check...
« Last Edit: 06/05/06 at 21:05:22 by Scholar »  
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HgMan
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #33 - 06/03/06 at 22:38:46
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That may be playable, but I was worried about:

18 Qxg7 Qf8 19 Qg5+ Ke8 20 Qe5+ Kd8 21 d6! Qe8 22 Qg5+ f6 23 Qxf6+ Kc8 24 f3

White still needs to find a home for his/her bishop and activate those rooks, but I'm not crazy about Black's pawn on c5...

  

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MNb
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #32 - 06/03/06 at 21:30:03
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This piece sac certainly dangerous, but after 18...Qf8 Black still is in the game. Or am I missing something?
  

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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #31 - 06/03/06 at 16:43:06
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I think this is the critical line after 7 ... Ne4:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 exd5 5.cxd5 b5 6.Bg5 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 Ne4 8.Bd2 Nxd2 9.Nxd2 d6 10.e4 b4 11.Nc4 Qd8 12.Qa4+! Bd7 13.Nb5 a6 14.Nbxd6+ Bxd6 15.Nxd6+ Ke7 16.Qb3 Kxd6 17.Qg3+ Ke7 18.Qxg7

This is a big improvement on Browne-Ljubojevic, and seems to leave Black in a lot of trouble.
  

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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #30 - 06/03/06 at 14:51:09
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Scholar wrote on 06/02/06 at 08:01:36:

@Browne,W (2540) - Ljubojevic,L (2590), Konex Buenos Aires (6), 1979

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 exd5 5.cxd5 b5 6.Bg5 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 Ne4 8.Bd2 Nxd2 9.Nxd2 d6 10.e4 b4 11.Nc4 Qd8 12.Nb1 Be7 13.Bd3 0-0 14.0-0 Bf6 15.Nbd2 Nd7 16.Nxd6 Bxb2 17.Rb1 Bc3 18.Nxc8 Rxc8 19.Nc4 ½-½

I'll avoid talking about the main line here and instead mention a couple of earlier deviations I found interesting:

I think that White might try 12.Ne2 intending Ng3.  Comparing this to the similar line in the Benoni, Black will have a more difficult time generating play on the queenside, but is free of his king's knight which usually just gets in the way.  It's difficult to assess without any practical examples, but I worry that White has too much control over opening both the queenside and center to give Black a comfortable equality.  The other knight move, 12.Nb5 seems to force a draw.

The move 8.Qd3 is also rather forcing -- Black seems to be holding on in the lines I've looked at, but White has some ideas which have not been tested.  Ultimately, I think Black will be OK here, even in positions where a sacrifice of some material is required, but I'll have to check more deeply before being able to play against this with confidence.


Can White really play on after 12.Nb5?  It seemed like he would have a rather difficult time continuing the attack after say 12.Nb6 a6 13.Qa5 Bd7 14.Nxd6+ Bxd6 15.Nxd6+ Ke7 16.Qb3 Kxd6 17.Qg3+ Ke7 18.Qxg7+ Qf8 19.Qe5+ Kd8 and while Qf6+ gets a perpetual, it's hard to find concrete moves.  I agree that this is dangerous though.

The 8.Qd3 lines don't look as threatening...I was seeing some ghosts last time.

12.Ne2 might be the best alternative, though I'll have to look at 11.Bb5+.
  
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #29 - 06/03/06 at 13:20:14
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MNb wrote on 06/02/06 at 03:36:12:
HgMan wrote on 06/01/06 at 22:14:11:
I presume, of course, that 7 ... Ne4 must be the mainline, but Black does not seem to score particularly well here.  8 Bd2 Nxd2 9 Nxd2 d6 10 e4 seems to take all the fun out of the position for Black...


Already checked Browne-Ljubojevic, Buenos Aires 1979?


Is this really Black's best?  I like 10 ... b4, although I'm really not fond of the idea that White's knight can jump to c4 with tempo.  At first, I thought that White was better if it avoided the pawn exchange, d6 for b2, with something like 15 Qc2 and working to limit Black's counterplay; Black's pieces look awkward and are hard-pressed to find good squares.

Gavrilov interposed 11 Bb5+ Bd7 12 Nc4 Qd8 13 Bxd7+ Nxd7 14 Nb1 in Gavrilov-Tsarev, Moscow 1988, which reached a similar position to Browne-Ljubojevic, but without the light-squared bishops, which is probably a little better for White.

But then I went looking for an alternative to 12 Nb1 in Browne-Ljubojevic, and it turns out that White has a rather promising piece sacrifice: 12 Qa4+!  Now: 12 ... Bd7 13 Nb5 a6 14 Nbxd6+ Bxd6 15 Nxd6+ Ke7 16 Qb3 Kxd6 17 Qg3+ Ke7 18 Qxg7, and White should pick up three pawns for the piece.  I like White here.  White's queen was a little passive in Browne-Ljubojevic, but 12 Qa4+ brings her into the fray to good effect.

I still think I prefer 7 ... d6 from my earlier post...
  

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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #28 - 06/02/06 at 14:54:56
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Thanks for the reply Scholar; I admit I was premature to say that the position looked "equal" to me, perhaps "playable" was more on the mark.  Still, I think Black has accomplished something by not letting the White knight into c4; I'll look a little closer at the position and see what I think.  For now, I'll stand by my comments that 10...Nc7! is better than 10...Rb8, though.
  
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #27 - 06/02/06 at 08:01:36
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@ErictheRed: Regarding the line you propose, 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 b5 5.Bg5 Qa5 6.Qd2 Qxd2+ 7.Nfxd2!  bxc4 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.e4 Na6 10.a3 Nc7 11.Nc3 Bb7 12.Bxc4, I think that White retains the better chances by playing 0-0-0, g3, f4 and intending to break through in the center.  Black has a hard time finding good squares for his pieces and the rooks are drawn to the b and g files where they do nothing at all.  Still this is a very reasonable idea, and maybe if Black plays actively in the center he can hold on, but I think it is too early to call the position equal.

@Browne,W (2540) - Ljubojevic,L (2590), Konex Buenos Aires (6), 1979

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 exd5 5.cxd5 b5 6.Bg5 Qa5+ 7.Nc3 Ne4 8.Bd2 Nxd2 9.Nxd2 d6 10.e4 b4 11.Nc4 Qd8 12.Nb1 Be7 13.Bd3 0-0 14.0-0 Bf6 15.Nbd2 Nd7 16.Nxd6 Bxb2 17.Rb1 Bc3 18.Nxc8 Rxc8 19.Nc4 ½-½

I'll avoid talking about the main line here and instead mention a couple of earlier deviations I found interesting:

I think that White might try 12.Ne2 intending Ng3.  Comparing this to the similar line in the Benoni, Black will have a more difficult time generating play on the queenside, but is free of his king's knight which usually just gets in the way.  It's difficult to assess without any practical examples, but I worry that White has too much control over opening both the queenside and center to give Black a comfortable equality.  The other knight move, 12.Nb5 seems to force a draw.

The move 8.Qd3 is also rather forcing -- Black seems to be holding on in the lines I've looked at, but White has some ideas which have not been tested.  Ultimately, I think Black will be OK here, even in positions where a sacrifice of some material is required, but I'll have to check more deeply before being able to play against this with confidence.

Regarding 5th move alternatives, I am happy with 5.Bg5 h6 at the moment, but really I think many of Black's replies give him an acceptable game.  In fact, the more that I look, the more that I feel that the accepted lines are White's best chance for an advantage, but so far, I am satisfied with Black's compensation.

5.dxe6 fxe6 6.cxb5 d5 7.Nc3 Nbd7 8.e4 d4 9.e5 Ng4 instead of 10.Ne4? Bb7! it looks like White has a number of moves which need to be checked more carefully.  This looks to be a weak point of the entire Blumenfeld as far as I can see, mainly because Black seems to lack good alternatives at move 7, and his earlier deviations do not appeal to me as much (postponing d5 or playing an early a6).

I would like to rule out White's alternatives at move 9 and 10, but things are not yet clear.  For example, the sequence 10.Ng5 Ndxe5 11.f4 dxc3 12.Qxd8+ Kxd8 13.fxe5 seems to be virtually forced from Black's perspective, and at the end, he is left in a difficult position where his pawns are weak and obstruct his pieces.

A much lesser concern, 5.cxb5 seems to be more annoying than I had hoped.  What do you guys think is best: 5...Nxd5 intending to meet e4 with Nb6/d5 and exd5 with Nxd5, or simply 5...exd5 intending to hold the center with Bb7 and Qa5(+) if needed, or something else entirely?

Finally, having acquired Przewoznik, I can agree with what MNb says: a good if rather chaotic text.  It would be nice if he had singled out what he thought the most promising continuations were, since his own praxis sees just about every possible Black move.  I'm also not too enthusiastic about his treatment of the early deviations which I mentioned above (Bb7 before d5, a6 as soon as possible) but perhaps playing this way will prove necessary.
  
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MNb
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Re: Coverage of the Blumenfeld
Reply #26 - 06/02/06 at 03:36:12
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HgMan wrote on 06/01/06 at 22:14:11:
I presume, of course, that 7 ... Ne4 must be the mainline, but Black does not seem to score particularly well here.  8 Bd2 Nxd2 9 Nxd2 d6 10 e4 seems to take all the fun out of the position for Black...


Already checked Browne-Ljubojevic, Buenos Aires 1979?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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