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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian (Read 36766 times)
kalle99
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #25 - 05/29/06 at 18:21:47
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OK Tony I believe you 100%. But I would probably anyhow play the Bogo. I mean I know the plans in the Bogo and it is not so complex. My point is that I can imagine that a GM easier can use my slightest innacuracy in the QID. QID is probably better because most topplayers play it. But it requires  much more to learn.  As you already have mentioned.

So therefor I would play the Bogo. Its little more surprising than the QID also. As a Bogo player you  face the Bogo more often than the white player . So there could be a practical advantage in that. Maybe.

By the way. Tony do you agree with Roman that the Bogo Indian is closer to the Nimzo than the QID ?
I am just wondering about one thing : If QID would be very close to the nimzo (as one amateur stated here earlier)...would it then require much from you to play the QID ? When you are a Nimzo expert ? 

And I hope you have a new book soon. Why not "Starting out the Bogo Indian" ? Or another book on the Bogo. There are not many books on the Bogo at all. Compared to other openings. 



Best regards.




  

"I Often see in chess forums people asking : " What is the current status of that line ?"&&&&Its a good reasonable question,but who can claim that he knows the answer ?!&&&&Semko Semkov Januari 2008
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #24 - 05/29/06 at 15:03:38
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Yes, that's true, if Black tries to take his share of space in the centre by ...d5 then it doesn't really help that he has already exchanged his 'better' bishop as in the Bogo.
  
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fluffy
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #23 - 05/29/06 at 14:10:01
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the reason the QID is much popualr than the Bogo at top level can be summarized in one word: SPACE
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #22 - 05/29/06 at 11:24:23
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I just had a quick look at the number of games between 2700+ players from the last two years and according to my database there was 1 Bogo for 46 QIs!
Even at my somewhat lower level I find it really tough playing the Bogo against players rated 2500-2600. Cry
In fact, this was the reason I have started playing the Keres stuff, after seeing it on John Emms' site, but once the surprise value wears off it comes to pretty much the same.
Actually, I even gave Richard's 3...Nc6 a whirl in a recent tournament, but got such a bad position ... Embarrassed
  
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #21 - 05/29/06 at 01:17:09
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/28/06 at 23:01:21:
Against a very strong player the Bogo is very risky - Mickey Adams once told me that he thought it verged on the unsound, and he should know!  Shocked


Wow!  That's quite an indictment!  I always thought that the Bogo-Indian was a little risky, but bordering on unsound?  I guess I'm not playing at Adams's level, but I always thought the Bogo had the benefit of forcing White's pieces onto squares that weren't necessarily their best...
  

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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #20 - 05/28/06 at 23:01:21
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Against a very strong player the Bogo is very risky - Mickey Adams once told me that he thought it verged on the unsound, and he should know!  Shocked
I play GMs all the time, and I always choose the Bogo, but that's mainly becasue I can't be bothered to learn a new opening!
  
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kalle99
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #19 - 05/28/06 at 20:44:17
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Stronger ? Well it depends. I am sure it is a little bit  riskier to play the QID: The Bogo Indian is more solid. Harder to win with also probably. 

If you faced a GM ...Would you play the QID or the Bogo ?

Well I dont have to think very long for that question.
  

"I Often see in chess forums people asking : " What is the current status of that line ?"&&&&Its a good reasonable question,but who can claim that he knows the answer ?!&&&&Semko Semkov Januari 2008
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #18 - 05/25/06 at 21:50:10
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Objectively the QI is stronger, although I prefer to play the Bogo - but this is just a question of taste. Also, the Bogo is simpler to play in some respects as you first get rid of your dark-squared bishop, and then try to put all your pawns on dark squares!
Maybe the Keres line is better still as you keep your kingside development options open!
  
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #17 - 05/25/06 at 20:40:26
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I saw that video too long time ago (a friend of mine have the complete collection!) and Roman only said that because he chooses some variations where that structure happens like the dubious Qc2 Nc6 in the Nimzo and Roman chooses some variations of the Rubinstein e3 with similar structure themes and only because of that Roman said that , but that is not enough to say that Bogo is the most closer with ideas to the Nimzo, because that is not true. I am not talking only about one or two variations like Roman! Do you know who was Nimzowitsch? What are is principles of play? By the way, check the classification of Roman videos quality in Chesscafe and you will see that this videos or dvd´s are very poor in quality (Carsten Hansen- Checkpoint) and buy a good book like Starting out the Queen´s Indian by Emms and you could read there on page 5: Quote:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 fighting for control of d5 and allowing the f8 bishop to develop. At this point White has quite an important decision to make. The most direct move is 3.Nc3, threatening e2-e4. However, Black can than continue Nimzowitsch´s ideal of controling the centre with pieces by playing 3...Bb4!, leading to the very popular Nimzo-Indian Defence. If White, wishes to avoid this possibility one move that comes to mind is 3.Nf3 developing the other knight. Black now as quite a few options: he can still play 3...Bb4+ (Bogo-Indian); he can also return to the classical paths with 3...d5 Queen´s Gambit Declined). However, the move I´am focusing on this book is 3...b6! , the Queen´s Indian Defence. It´s this move that is most in line with Nimzowitsch´s principle: after Black fianchettoes with ...Bb7 this bishop is perfectly placed to control the important central squares d5 and e4. - John Emms
Who do you believe now? Roman or Emms? 
Bogo can be a little brother of the Nimzo, but the great brother is the Queen´s Indian in terms of themes and ideas. Pressure on c4 ideas, controlling the centre from a distance etc. Just ask any strong player this question and he will tell you that the closest in spirit to the Nimzo and the most respected is the Queen´s Indian. 
And another thing, don´t trust anything you read or watch, because sometimes they try to sell you a bunch of easy (and sometimes dubious) ways to play. I am not coming here to sell lies or to make money, I just gave you my opinion as a player and you can believe in what you want. The important thing about reading a book or watching a dvd is not to accept everything with blidness, but to accept or decline some views and form your own ideas.
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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kalle99
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #16 - 05/25/06 at 17:59:22
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I disagree with you too!! The point is that if you watch Romans video where he has a repertoire with the Bogo indian he quotes " : Bogo Indian is closer to Nimzo when speaking about ideas"

The video he says it is "Rapid opening repertoire for black"

http://www.classicalgames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=00...
  

"I Often see in chess forums people asking : " What is the current status of that line ?"&&&&Its a good reasonable question,but who can claim that he knows the answer ?!&&&&Semko Semkov Januari 2008
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #15 - 05/25/06 at 00:10:56
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What is the main theory to the Vikoni? I looked at it some time back and decided to simply play it as kasparov did (if it ever actually comes up in one of my games), i.e. 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb4 4. Bd2 c5 5. Bxb4 cxb4 6. Qb3, with g3, Bg2, 0-0, a3, etc. to follow. The Qb3 line has been rarely played, so I assume that it is known to be equal in some way...
  
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #14 - 05/24/06 at 23:29:36
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Quote:
GM Roman Dzindzichasvilli recommends the Bogo-Indian because he means that the Bogo is actually closer to the Nimzo-Indian if we talk about ideas. The queens indian is more of a different opening. 


I disagree, because Roman Dzindzichasvilli in his Chess Openings for Black Explained created a complete repertoire book and it is more easy to explain the Bogo than the Queen´s Indian defence in terms of pages in a complete book because if he chooses the Queen´s Indian, he had much more work! Dzindzi said that, because of the structure e6-d6 e5 that he chooses against one variation: the Nimzo Classical Variation with Qc2 Nc6 is the same of the Bogo structures and ideas, but the Queen´s Indian Defence is much more similar to Nimzo-Indian in the spirit of his creator, Aaron Nimzowitch! Fighting the centre from a distance! John Emms have a great book.
  

It has been said that chess players are good at two things, Chess and Excuses.  It has also been said that Chess is where all excuses fail! In order to win you must dare to fail!
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kalle99
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #13 - 05/24/06 at 22:25:22
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GM Roman Dzindzichasvilli recommends the Bogo-Indian because he means that the Bogo is actually closer to the Nimzo-Indian if we talk about ideas. The queens indian is more of a different opening.

One possibility could be to play the Bogo against stronger players and queens Indian against weaker players. 

The point is that it would not be a catastrophy to get a draw against the stronger player and by playing the QID mess things up against the weaker player.
  

"I Often see in chess forums people asking : " What is the current status of that line ?"&&&&Its a good reasonable question,but who can claim that he knows the answer ?!&&&&Semko Semkov Januari 2008
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #12 - 03/29/06 at 12:41:27
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I must admit, if we're looking for life after 3 Nf3, the Blumenfeld or the Benoni promise more exciting chess...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #11 - 03/29/06 at 06:13:50
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If I am not mistaken Magnus Carlsen recently crushed some black player in this variation at Rejkjavik. But that may not be only due to the opening....

Vikoni-variation... There should have been some sort of a "variation naming-police" in the chess world....  Roll Eyes
Btw, I don't have any better name to it.....
  
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