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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian (Read 30670 times)
Excalibur
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #40 - 07/18/06 at 05:30:32
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OK....let me put this to anyone in an easier way.
(Otherwise this question seems to be snowballing the wrong way).

Does ANYONE have the rest of the theory in their chess software starting from 17...,Nh5?!

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. Nc3 Bb7  5. a3 d5 6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Qc2 Nxc3 8. bxc3 (8. Qxc3 ) Nd7 9. e4 c5 10. Bf4 cxd4 11. cxd4 Rc8 12. Qb3 Be7 13. Bd3 Nf6 14. Qb5+ Qd7 15. Ne5 Qxb5 16. Bxb5+ Kf8 17. f3 Nh5!? (Mainline theory says 17...., Ne8).
  
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MNb
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #39 - 07/18/06 at 03:02:25
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Let me add my 2 SRD then. I think Excalibur is more likely to receive the requested "strongish moves", if he posts some analysis from himself.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #38 - 07/17/06 at 14:32:01
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I know this is piling on, but I agree too, Markovich.

Having said that, it would be a nice surprise to see the GMs and IM throw in their two cents/ pence/centimes' worth.

GM Kosten has been fantastic about replying to interesting questions in the past.
  
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Keano
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #37 - 07/17/06 at 14:22:03
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Completely agree with Markovich on this...
  
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Markovich
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Re: Where is GM Kosten????!!!!!
Reply #36 - 07/17/06 at 14:20:03
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Excalibur wrote on 07/16/06 at 06:30:52:
GM Kosten missing in action?!  Shocked
Grin
I hope he re-appears on thiis forum soon to answer my 2 questions:  Cheesy

Hi, Tony (and other interested chess members) 

I have 2 important questions: 
(A). What's white's best continuation in: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb6 4. Nc3 Bb7  line?! 
Is it 5. g3 OR 5. a3?! 
 
(B). How should White proceed in this line:  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. Nc3 Bb7  5. a3 d5 6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Qc2 Nxc3 8. bxc3 (8. Qxc3 ) Nd7 9. e4 c5 10. Bf4 cxd4 11. cxd4 Rc8 12. Qb3 Be7 13. Bd3 Nf6 14. Qb5+ Qd7 15. Ne5 Qxb5 16. Bxb5+ Kf8 17. f3 Nh5!? (Mainline theory says 17...., Ne8). 18. Bd2 g5.   
Should White continue with 19.h4! now?!   
Any strongish continuations will be appreciated.  Roll Eyes   



I am a paying member of all sections of ChessPub, but I don't think expect the GMs and IMs who contribute here to answer just any question that I post on this forum.  For one thing, not everyone who posts here is a subscriber.  For another, the subcription fee is for access to the updates, not for your own personal GM chessbuddy.  Moreover, I think that questions of the form, "What's the best way to play against the X system?" are too broad to deserve much attention from the strong players who contribute to ChessPub.  If you want to know what top-level players are playing against the X system, it's easy enough to find out from a chess data base; you don't need to have some GM tell you personally.  Also from databases, you can easily discover the personal preference versus the X system of any given GM who has faced it.
  

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Excalibur
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Where is GM Kosten????!!!!!
Reply #35 - 07/16/06 at 06:30:52
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GM Kosten missing in action?!  Shocked
Grin
I hope he re-appears on thiis forum soon to answer my 2 questions:  Cheesy

Hi, Tony (and other interested chess members) 

I have 2 important questions: 
(A). What's white's best continuation in: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb6 4. Nc3 Bb7  line?! 
Is it 5. g3 OR 5. a3?! 
 
(B). How should White proceed in this line:  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. Nc3 Bb7  5. a3 d5 6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Qc2 Nxc3 8. bxc3 (8. Qxc3 ) Nd7 9. e4 c5 10. Bf4 cxd4 11. cxd4 Rc8 12. Qb3 Be7 13. Bd3 Nf6 14. Qb5+ Qd7 15. Ne5 Qxb5 16. Bxb5+ Kf8 17. f3 Nh5!? (Mainline theory says 17...., Ne8). 18. Bd2 g5.   
Should White continue with 19.h4! now?!   
Any strongish continuations will be appreciated.  Roll Eyes   

  
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OstapBender
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #34 - 07/15/06 at 22:27:23
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Kotzen ?  Huh
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #33 - 07/15/06 at 15:05:43
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I know I'm not GM Kosten, or even anyone close to that playing pedigree, but Mikhail Gurevich is, and he wrote the section in the latest ECO on E12 (QID).  He prefers the a3 Petrosian/Kasparov line for White, but concludes that it leads only to equality with best play from both sides.  Perhaps this is why it is so popular at the highest levels. 

It seems that players of the White side need to come up with something good against both the Nimzo-Indian and the QID that offers more than just interesting play, but also something that theoreticians can grab hold of too.  I hope this offers some insights while we wait for Tony's response.
  
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Excalibur
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2 QUESTIONS FOR GM TONY KOSTEN!
Reply #32 - 07/15/06 at 14:33:22
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2 QUESTIONS FOR GM TONY KOSTEN!

Hi, Tony (and other interested chess members)

I have 2 important questions:
(A). What's white's best continuation in: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb6 4. Nc3 Bb7  line?!
Is it 5. g3 OR 5. a3?!

(B). How should White proceed in this line:  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. Nc3 Bb7  5. a3 d5 6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Qc2 Nxc3 8. bxc3 (8. Qxc3 ) Nd7 9. e4 c5 10. Bf4 cxd4 11. cxd4 Rc8 12. Qb3 Be7 13. Bd3 Nf6 14. Qb5+ Qd7 15. Ne5 Qxb5 16. Bxb5+ Kf8 17. f3 Nh5!? (Mainline theory says 17...., Ne8). 18. Bd2 g5.  
Should White continue with 19.h4! now?!  
Any strongish continuations will be appreciated.  
« Last Edit: 07/16/06 at 06:27:12 by Excalibur »  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #31 - 07/13/06 at 07:14:30
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Wasn't there someone named MNb who criticised another commentator for thinking only 1.5 ply ahead? Lips Sealed
  
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MNb
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #30 - 07/13/06 at 03:33:56
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My first name is not Tony and I am certainly not a GM, but I still know the answer: 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Bb4+.
  

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richard_dumoulin
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #29 - 07/13/06 at 00:41:18
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Tony, would you mind telling what is the Keres opening?

Thx

-- Richard
  
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #28 - 05/30/06 at 20:22:15
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With the options available to Black after 1 d4, I'm not entirely sure what would entice an enterprising Black player to work on the Bogo as a primary (or even secondary) weapon at the top level.   Undecided

I don't see the Bogo appealing to the younger set of emerging super-GMs, though I could be wrong.  There seem to be too many ways for White to squelch Black's play, suck the air out of the position, and reduce Black's chances to nil.  And then there's transposing into a 4 Qc2 Nimzo a tempo down!

I haven't spent as much time (recently) with the Bogo-Indian, but I'm not sure it's more directly related to the Nimzo than the QID.  Outside of putting a bishop on b4 to stake some control over e4 and possibly parting with that same bishop relatvely early, it seems to me that the Nimzo and QID share a lot more in common...
  

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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #27 - 05/30/06 at 17:58:04
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I guess it is closer to the Nimzo in some respects (you often exchange your dark-squared bishop!), and certainly if White plays 4 Nc3! Grin
Also I remember Miles telling me that 4 Nbd2 b6 5 a3 Bxd2+ 6 Qxd2 Bb7 can transpose to a 4 Qc2 Nimzo line ... except that White has an extra tempo!!  Embarrassed
I suppose yes, the one advantage of the Bogo is that White players are less well prepared for it, but when they are prepared ... ouch!
I guess what is needed is for some really strong player to start playing it again regularly, with lots of new ideas. It was the wins of a young Salov that enticed me into playing the line in the first place. Smiley
  
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Re: Queens Indian v. Bogo Indian
Reply #26 - 05/30/06 at 10:52:34
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Dropping the search down(?!) to games between players rated 2600+, one can find 21 games since 1999, though Zvjaginsev is the only "regular" practitioner (he's Black in 5 of those games--second are Adams & Ivanchuk with 2 each).  Racing through a few of those games, it seems as though the Bogo can have a little surprise value for Black (and an early-ish ... f5 seems to stake a claim at a good amount of space on the board), but when Black loses, Black really loses!
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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