Let me add my 2 SRD then. I think Excalibur is more likely to receive the requested "strongish moves", if he posts some analysis from himself.

Completely agree with Markovich on this...

GM Kosten missing in action?! 

I hope he re-appears on thiis forum soon to answer my 2 questions: 

Hi, Tony (and other interested chess members)   
 
I have 2 important questions:   
(A). What's white's best continuation in: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb6 4. Nc3 Bb7  line?!   
Is it 5. g3 OR 5. a3?!   
   
(B). How should White proceed in this line:  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. Nc3 Bb7  5. a3 d5 6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Qc2 Nxc3 8. bxc3 (8. Qxc3 ) Nd7 9. e4 c5 10. Bf4 cxd4 11. cxd4 Rc8 12. Qb3 Be7 13. Bd3 Nf6 14. Qb5+ Qd7 15. Ne5 Qxb5 16. Bxb5+ Kf8 17. f3 Nh5!? (Mainline theory says 17...., Ne8). 18. Bd2 g5.   
Should White continue with 19.h4! now?!   
Any strongish continuations will be appreciated.     

I know I'm not GM Kosten, or even anyone close to that playing pedigree, but Mikhail Gurevich is, and he wrote the section in the latest ECO on E12 (QID).  He prefers the a3 Petrosian/Kasparov line for White, but concludes that it leads only to equality with best play from both sides.  Perhaps this is why it is so popular at the highest levels.   

It seems that players of the White side need to come up with something good against both the Nimzo-Indian and the QID that offers more than just interesting play, but also something that theoreticians can grab hold of too.  I hope this offers some insights while we wait for Tony's response.

Wasn't there someone named MNb who criticised another commentator for thinking only 1.5 ply ahead?

Tony, would you mind telling what is the Keres opening? 

Thx

-- Richard

I guess it is closer to the Nimzo in some respects (you often exchange your dark-squared bishop!), and certainly if White plays 4 Nc3!
Also I remember Miles telling me that 4 Nbd2 b6 5 a3 Bxd2+ 6 Qxd2 Bb7 can transpose to a 4 Qc2 Nimzo line ... except that White has an extra tempo!!  
I suppose yes, the one advantage of the Bogo is that White players are less well prepared for it, but when they are prepared ... ouch!
I guess what is needed is for some really strong player to start playing it again regularly, with lots of new ideas. It was the wins of a young Salov that enticed me into playing the line in the first place.

OK Tony I believe you 100%. But I would probably anyhow play the Bogo. I mean I know the plans in the Bogo and it is not so complex. My point is that I can imagine that a GM easier can use my slightest innacuracy in the QID. QID is probably better because most topplayers play it. But it requires  much more to learn.  As you already have mentioned.

So therefor I would play the Bogo. Its little more surprising than the QID also. As a Bogo player you  face the Bogo more often than the white player . So there could be a practical advantage in that. Maybe.

By the way. Tony do you agree with Roman that the Bogo Indian is closer to the Nimzo than the QID ?
I am just wondering about one thing : If QID would be very close to the nimzo (as one amateur stated here earlier)...would it then require much from you to play the QID ? When you are a Nimzo expert ? 

And I hope you have a new book soon. Why not "Starting out the Bogo Indian" ? Or another book on the Bogo. There are not many books on the Bogo at all. Compared to other openings. 



Best regards.

the reason the QID is much popualr than the Bogo at top level can be summarized in one word: SPACE

GMTonyKosten wrote on 05/28/06 at 23:01:21:


Wow!  That's quite an indictment!  I always thought that the Bogo-Indian was a little risky, but bordering on unsound?  I guess I'm not playing at Adams's level, but I always thought the Bogo had the benefit of forcing White's pieces onto squares that weren't necessarily their best...

Stronger ? Well it depends. I am sure it is a little bit  riskier to play the QID: The Bogo Indian is more solid. Harder to win with also probably. 

If you faced a GM ...Would you play the QID or the Bogo ?

Well I dont have to think very long for that question.

I saw that video too long time ago (a friend of mine have the complete collection!) and Roman only said that because he chooses some variations where that structure happens like the dubious Qc2 Nc6 in the Nimzo and Roman chooses some variations of the Rubinstein e3 with similar structure themes and only because of that Roman said that , but that is not enough to say that Bogo is the most closer with ideas to the Nimzo, because that is not true. I am not talking only about one or two variations like Roman! Do you know who was Nimzowitsch? What are is principles of play? By the way, check the classification of Roman videos quality in Chesscafe and you will see that this videos or dvd´s are very poor in quality (Carsten Hansen- Checkpoint) and buy a good book like Starting out the Queen´s Indian by Emms and you could read there on page 5: Quote:
Who do you believe now? Roman or Emms? 
Bogo can be a little brother of the Nimzo, but the great brother is the Queen´s Indian in terms of themes and ideas. Pressure on c4 ideas, controlling the centre from a distance etc. Just ask any strong player this question and he will tell you that the closest in spirit to the Nimzo and the most respected is the Queen´s Indian. 
And another thing, don´t trust anything you read or watch, because sometimes they try to sell you a bunch of easy (and sometimes dubious) ways to play. I am not coming here to sell lies or to make money, I just gave you my opinion as a player and you can believe in what you want. The important thing about reading a book or watching a dvd is not to accept everything with blidness, but to accept or decline some views and form your own ideas.

What is the main theory to the Vikoni? I looked at it some time back and decided to simply play it as kasparov did (if it ever actually comes up in one of my games), i.e. 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb4 4. Bd2 c5 5. Bxb4 cxb4 6. Qb3, with g3, Bg2, 0-0, a3, etc. to follow. The Qb3 line has been rarely played, so I assume that it is known to be equal in some way...

GM Roman Dzindzichasvilli recommends the Bogo-Indian because he means that the Bogo is actually closer to the Nimzo-Indian if we talk about ideas. The queens indian is more of a different opening.

One possibility could be to play the Bogo against stronger players and queens Indian against weaker players. 

The point is that it would not be a catastrophy to get a draw against the stronger player and by playing the QID mess things up against the weaker player.

If I am not mistaken Magnus Carlsen recently crushed some black player in this variation at Rejkjavik. But that may not be only due to the opening....

Vikoni-variation... There should have been some sort of a "variation naming-police" in the chess world.... 
Btw, I don't have any better name to it.....

have you ever heard about the VIKONI-variaition of the Bogo. And if so, what the heck is dull about it ?

I'm sure we can agree to disagree here, and I accept that the Benoni is under a bit of a cloud, but even if it is difficult, it does give Black some serious winning chances.  In itself, the Modern Benoni is rather easy to learn (not moves, but ideas), and provides Black with decent chances of fighting for the center.

I don't have anything against the QID or the Bogo-Indian, but the QID can be rather tame compared with the Nimzo, since the Nimzo establishes some important imbalances in the position by doubling White's pawns.  By opening the e-file for Black, the Benoni offers some interesting counterplay as well.  My other sense is that BECAUSE the QID is the focus of so much theoretical analysis at the moment it can be difficult to learn and keep up.  Better, in my opinion, to start with an opening whose theory is a little more static and claim it as your own.

As for the Blumenfeld, a big part of its appeal is that it is less studied and that you can catch White off-guard (my instinct is that this is easier than one might think with the Benoni as well...).  There are some rich lines here and ample opportunities to blaze new trails, which I always find attractive.

Matter of taste, though...

The other alternative is to play the Modern Benoni (1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 c5) or the Blumenfeld (1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 c5 4 d5 b5).  Both are reasonable alternatives and will reward thoughtful preparation.

The Blumenfeld, in particular, has some surprise value and produces some interesting positions...

It is a fact that there is a lot more literature on the QID.
But there is also an outstanding booklet on the Bogo, so... 
(And also a CD on the 'Bogo-Catalan).

I think the Bogo is the more interesting of the two, because your choice as to which direction you want to lead the game into (solif vs wild) is wider...