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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C30-C39: A new look at the King's Gambit (Read 71981 times)
AWalker
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #20 - 07/21/06 at 03:55:53
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Thanks very much for your help. Another variation he may have wrong is after 3. Be2 Qh4+ 4. Kf1
g5 5. Nc3 Qh6 "avec égalité" . I've started doing some analysis with Rybka and it doesn't mind white.
I'd like to hear from anyone on here who has a copy of Colin Leach's book
"Complete Chess Openings, Group A Section 1, 1.e4 e5 2.f4 ef4 without 3.Bc4, 3.Nf3"
to find out how many pages it gives to Be2, and perhaps get a copy of it if it's not too large.
Or preferably buy it somewhere.
This I've seen indicated as 1995, and is probably(?) the most recent work.

Andrew
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #19 - 07/21/06 at 01:38:22
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These articles are nice as an introduction, but quite superficial. If you do a database research, you will find the same stuff.
As an example may serve 3.Be2?! f5!, when in the critical line 4.e5 d6 5.d4 the author leaves the reader with more questions than answers.

One should also note the variation 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d5 4.exd5 Nf6 5.Be2, which easily can be reached after 3.Be2 d5 4.exd5.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #18 - 07/20/06 at 06:05:16
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I'll add that I have found the article at http://www.mjae.com/petrov.html
however I have no idea on its quality, and my French is very rusty!

Has anyone looked closely at the other KG articles on these pages?
It's easisest to go to http://www.mjae.com/parties.html
and look at links 26-36

Andrew
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #17 - 07/20/06 at 05:51:10
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CraigEvans wrote on 11/30/05 at 07:38:58:
I just love causing trouble.  Grin

3.Be2 is certainly not a bad move either, and is probably worth a try below the master levels.

So, let the debate continue! 

Regards
Craig  Grin 


Does anyone have any theory or surveys for 3. Be2 in the KGA? There were some books on this by Lutes or Leech, wish I could find them somewhere! I'll also add that the thick Cunningham defence book which I think was by Lutes (I have this at home, can check), is brilliant on the early history of the KG!

Andrew
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #16 - 07/11/06 at 15:12:52
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Dragonslayer wrote on 12/02/05 at 08:54:14:
In the Rosentreter gambit White has to go for 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4 g4! 5.Bxf4 gxf3 6.Qxf3 Nc6! 7.c3


having given up a piece already you don't want to start worrying about pawns Wink

better to play 7.Bc4 and sacrifice on f7 as well if necessary

edit: seems people here already know about 7.Bc4 d5 etc. oops.
« Last Edit: 07/12/06 at 08:36:06 by Jonathan Tait »  
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #15 - 01/31/06 at 02:09:03
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White does not have to play Bf1-c4, but can develop instead. Eg 3...g5 4.d4 d6 (can also be reached via the Fischer Defence) 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.g3 g4 7.Nh4 f3 8.h3 h5 9.Be3. See Kennaugh-Bellin, 1998, Shulman-Kamberi 2001 and Furhoff-Petran 1994.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #14 - 01/30/06 at 13:33:24
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Hi,

After 1e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3Nf3 g5 you were talking about 4Nc3 and 4d4, I agree that when Black plays g4 the position is very interesting from the theoritical point of vew, but what if Black plays 4..Bg7? Than what else can White do except transposing into lines known to be in blacks favour? 

OR
  
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MNb
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #13 - 12/05/05 at 21:09:05
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How do you mean equal? My statement is, that Black is better, if he follows Gallagher-Hresc up to the 14th move and then plays 14...Rd8!

Moreover there is 8.Bc4+ d5 9.Bxd5+ Ke8 10.d4 Bg7 11.Bxf4 Nxd4, which might lead to the conclusion, that 8.d4 is still relatively more precise.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Dragonslayer
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #12 - 12/05/05 at 11:51:03
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In New In Chess Yearbook 43 Shulman and Kapengut recommended 8.Bc4+ but failed to spot 6...d5!
This voids the relevance of 8.Bc4+ since White has no meaningful way of avoiding the transposition to 8.d4.
I also spent some time making the Hamppe-Allgaier gambit work and looked a bit at 8.Bc4+ anyway.
The game Zhelnin-Tjulin is mentioned in Bangiev and Hergert's 1993 book in German, written before Fritz and friends made their impact on the King's Gambit.
In the game White played (after 8.Bc4+ d5 9.Bxd5+ Kg7 10.d4 Qf6 11.e5 Nxe5 12.dxe5 Qxe5+) 13.Ne2 Nf6 14.Bc4 f3 15.gxf3 gxf3 16.Bf4 '!' according to Bangiev&Hergert. Unfortunately the position is better for Black. After 16...Qa5+ 17.Bd2 Qc5 18.Rg1+ Black missed Kh7 and played the unfortunate Ng4.
16...fxe2 is also good: 17.Rg1+ Kh7 18.Bxe5 exd1Q 19.Rxd1 Black has 19...Bb4+ followed by a rook to wahtever file White's King chooses.
Fritz likes 16...f2+.
In conclusion, the position after 13.Ne2 is lost for White. Bangiev&Hergert diapprove of 13.Qe2 on account of 13...Bd6. However, I think White has a draw with 14.Qxe5+ Bxe5 15.0-0 e.g. 15...Nf6 16.Bxf4 Bxc3 17.bxc3 Nxd5 18.Be5+ Kh7 19.Bxh8 Kxh8 20.Rf8+ Kg7 21.Raf1 and I see no way for Black to avoid the perpertual.
The only other tries are 14.Rf1 and 11.Bxc6 bxc6 12.e5 Qf5 13.0-0 f3 as given by B&H. It seems to me that White is missing his bishop.

Perhaps 8.Bc4+ is just as equal as 8.d4 ?
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #11 - 12/02/05 at 16:10:20
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I have been trying to make the Hamppe-Allgaier make work lately, but I don't trust it. This is an excerpt.

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 Nc6
1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 exf4 4.Nf3 g5
5.h4 g4 6.Ng5 h6 (I have not looked at d5 yet) 7.Nxf7 Kxf7 8.d4 f3!
Another interesting option is the transposition with 8...Nf6 9.Bxf4 Bb4 10.Be2 and only now d5.

9.Bc4+
9.gxf3 Bb4 10.Bc4+ (10.gxf4 d5) d5 (Ke8!?) 11.Bxd5+ Kg7 just transposes to the main line.
Estrin/Glaskov's recommendation 9.Be3 is also met by Be7; sooner or later White will have to play gxf3 anyway. After say 10.Bc4+ Ke8 11.gxf3 Bh4+ (Black can do without d5) 12.Kd2 d6 White has nothing for the sacrificed knight.

9...d5 10.Bxd5+ Kg7 11.gxf3 Bb4 12.Be3 Nf6 13.Bc4
13.Bxc6 bxc6 14.Qd3 gxf3 15.o-o-o Rf8 16.Bf4 f2 17.Rhf1 Ng4 18.Qg3 Kh7 -+.

13...Qe7
13...gxf3 now looks playable too: 14.Qxf3 Nxd4 15.Qf2 Nc6 and square e5 lures the knight.
13...Qd6 14.Rg1 Qh2 15.e5 Re8 16.exf6+ Kxf6 17.Qe2 is dead equal, Castelli-Gasloli, Buenos Aires 1967.

14.Qe2
Gallagher-Hresc, Geneve 1991. Here 14...Rd8! looks good, as 15.o-o-o Bxc3 16.bxc3 Qa3+ 17.Kb1 Qxc3 gives Black a huge advantage. But 15.Rd1 gxf3 16.Qxf3 Nxe4! 17.Rg1+ Kh8 18.Qf4 Bf5 also leaves White without compensation.

Initially I also thought 8.Bc4+ an improvement. After d5 9.Bxd5+ Kg7 10.d4 Black has the extra option 10...Qf6 11.e5 Nxe5 12.dxe5 Qxe5+ Zhelnin-Tiulin, Cherepovets 1973. I think Black is better.
Black also can try 9.Bxd5+ Ke8 10.d4 Bg7 11.Bxf4 Nxd4.

Finally Blackburne has played 8.Bc4+ d5 9.Nxd5 a couple of times. Here I have found something strong for Black: 9...f3!
a)10.Nxc7+ Kg7 11.Nxa8 fxg2 12.Rg1 Qxh4+ 13.Ke2 g3 -+.
b)10.gxf3 Ne5 11.Be2 g3 (c6 looks good too) 12.d4 g2 13.Rg1 Qxh4+ 14.Kd2 c6 15.Ne3 Bh3 -+. Not better is 11.fxg4 Nxc4 12.Qf3+ Ke8 13.Qc3 Qd6 14.Qxh8 Qg3+ 15.Kf1 Nxd2+!! 16.Bxd2 Qf3+ 17.Kg1 Bc5+ 18.Be3 Bxe3+ 19.Nxe3 Qxe3+ -+.
An amazing change of roles.  Undecided
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #10 - 12/02/05 at 08:54:14
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In the Rosentreter gambit White has to go for 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4 g4! 5.Bxf4 (5.Bc4 = Ghulam-Kassim; 5.Ne5 is worse than after 4.Nc3 g4) gxf3 6.Qxf3 Nc6! 7.c3. It looks dodgy but one might continue 7...Bh6 8.Bxf4 Qf6 9.0-0 Bxf4 10.Qxf4 Qxf4 11.Rxf4 with a position similar to the exchange variation of the Muzio/Polerio gambit. White will continue with Na3/d2 and Raf1.

The Quaade gambit 4.Nc3 is answered by 4...Nc6 when White can choose between the Hamppe-Allgaier 5.h4 which is good provided White plays 5...g4 6.Ng5 h6 7.Nxf7 Kxf7 8.Bc4+! After 8.d4 Black has a draw with 8...d5. Unfortunately Black can play 6...d5! when White has nothing better than 7.d4 h6 8.Nxf7 Kxf7 missing out on Bc4+.
The Pierce gambit with 5.d4 is probably also a forced draw in all lines after 5...g4! 6.Bc4.
Then there's 5.Bc4 which Soltis recommends. If Black is careful it should not be stronger than the alternatives.
One final possibility is 5.g3!? I leave the task of working out the consequences of this to you guys  Smiley

The double Muzio/Polerio gambit with 8.Bxf7+ is bad. Lean attack with 8.d3 is at most a draw. The exchange variation with 7.d3 might be playable though.

Unfortunately Black can choose the Hanstein or Philidor gambit with 4.Bc4 Bg7. Not much fun for White.

So it all hangs on those exchange variations with a pawn for a piece, unless you want to go for the Kieseritzky...
I saw Westerinen played 5...d6 6.Nxg4 Nf6 7.Nf2 recently. Unfortunately Black did not continue with the critical variation (7...Rg8 8.d4 Bh6 9.Nc3 Nc6!).
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #9 - 12/01/05 at 00:06:59
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What abt 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4. Is this any good for white? have seen quite a no. games like this but havent really found much material on it. Or are the Kieseritzkys & Muzios etc more promising?
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #8 - 11/30/05 at 21:21:23
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The problem with the Quaade Gambit is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 Nc6 which immediately transposes to the Pierce Gambit. According to Harding White has a draw at best.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #7 - 11/30/05 at 16:33:02
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1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 g4 5.Ne5 Nc6!? 6.Nxg4 Qh4+ 7.Nf2 Bc5 8.d4 Bxd4 9.Qf3 looks roughly level at the first glance but there's life in the position. 

After Qxf4 the queens may be coming off when pawns f7 and h7 may be weaker than pawn e4 so black may want to compensate by doubling the c-pawns with Bxc3 which in turn gives away the bishop pair...

Here's your other game with 9.Ne3!?:

Evans,C (1956) - Canizares Cuadra,P (2011) [C37]
TH-M-2333.2 IECC, 02.01.2004

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.g3 fxg3 7.Qxg4 Qxg4 8.Nxg4 d5 9.Ne3 d4 10.Nb5 Na6 11.Nxd4 gxh2 12.Rxh2 h5 13.Ndf5 Ne7 14.Bb5+ Bd7 15.Bxd7+ Kxd7 16.d3 Nxf5 17.Nxf5 Bd6 18.Nxd6 cxd6 19.Be3 f5 20.exf5 Raf8 21.Bxa7 Rxf5 22.Kd2 Nb4 23.Bd4 Rc8 24.c4 d5 25.Bc3 Nc6 26.cxd5 Ne5 27.Bxe5 Rxe5 28.Rah1 Rh8 29.Rh4 Rxd5 30.a4 Rh6 31.b4 Rg5 32.Rf1 Ke6 33.Rff4 b6 34.Rc4 Kd7 35.Kc3 Rhg6 36.Rcd4+ Kc7 37.Rhf4 Rg7 38.Rf6 R5g6 39.Rxg6 Rxg6 40.Rh4 Rg5 41.Rf4 Rg7 42.Kc4 Rh7 43.Rh4 Kc6 44.d4 Rh6 45.d5+ Kd6 46.a5 bxa5 47.bxa5 Kc7 48.Kc5 Ra6 49.Kb5 Rh6 50.Rc4+ Kb8 51.Rc6 Rh7 52.a6 Ka7 53.d6 Kb8 54.Rc4 h4 55.Kb6 Rd7 56.Kc6 Rd8 57.a7+ Kxa7 58.Kc7 1-0

Btw, I noticed a Rosenteter game similar to your Quaade:



Sharif,M - Ilon,B [C37]
Utrecht AVRO, 1999

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4 g4 5.Ne5 Qh4+ 6.g3 fxg3 7.Qxg4 Qxg4 8.Nxg4 d5 9.Ne3 dxe4 10.hxg3?! 

[Fritz 9: 10.Nc3!? Nf6 11.Ned5 Nxd5 12.Nxd5 Bd6 13.Nf6+ Kd8 14.Bg5 gxh2 15.Nxe4+ Be7 16.Rxh2 f5 17.Bxe7+ Kxe7 18.Nc3 Nc6 19.0-0-0 and white probably has enough comp.] 

10...Nc6 11.Bb5 Bd7 12.Bxc6 Bxc6 13.d5 Bd7 14.Nc3 Bg7 15.Nxe4 Nf6 16.Nxf6+ Bxf6 17.Rh5 0-0-0 18.Kf2 Bd4 19.c3 Bb6 20.c4 Rde8 21.Bd2 Bg4 22.Rh6 Bf5 23.Rxb6 Rxe3 24.Rf6 Rd3 25.Bc3 Bg6 26.Re1 Rd8 ˝-˝

  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #6 - 11/30/05 at 15:22:32
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Quote:
However, after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 ef 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 g4, the Quaade involves playing 5.Ne5, and there is no piece sacrifice involved. The critical line runs 5...Qh4+


How about 5. ...Nc6 when Blacks comin' back at ya' 

6. ....Qh4 is now a nasty threat after Nxc6 or Nxg4.
  
Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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