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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C30-C39: A new look at the King's Gambit (Read 71996 times)
blueguitar322
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #35 - 08/04/06 at 03:46:06
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Wow...I only quoted a few summaries and harped on NM's pessimism.. You guys must really have a bone to pick! Not that I disagree...(at all)...

Completeness would be impossible for a book that size. But errors in the main lines (with no hope/options given for White) are unacceptable.

I do like Dragonslayer's point about "fun" moves. Gallagher had a decent amount of this, and it's probably because he plays (played) the King's Gambit for fun. It's also one of my favorite things about TJ's book (which I'm loving, btw).
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #34 - 08/04/06 at 01:54:52
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I completely agree with Dragonslayer. In another thread I have pointed out many omissions too and got only halfway the book. Let me add two:

on page 15 McDonald writes "Nevertheless, the endgame with 13.Qd2 Qxd2+ 14.Kxd2 seems a better approach." Might be correct, but he should have mentioned 14...Ne7 15.Bg2 Nd7 16.Rcf1 Nb6 17.b3 Be6 18.c4 d5 Van Wessel-Bellin, Dieren 1997 (imo equal).
Conclusion: superficial research.

on page 45 McDonald writes "Gallagher therefore suggests 13.Nxe4 as best, when after Qxe4 14.Qxe4 Bxe4 15.Nf2 f5 White's position will be very hard to break down."
I have forgotten who (certainly not me), but on this site 16.Nxe4! fxe4 17.Bc4! / Rxe5 17.Bg5! was found, White being better.
Conclusion: superficial analysis.

There are so many examples of this, that there is only one verdict: McDonald's book is unreliable.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #33 - 08/03/06 at 23:26:22
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Yes indeed, but I don't really care about that myself. The book is still useful for what NM brings of his own to the King's Gambit. The mistakes, omissions, irrelevancies, etc. I can ignore or correct by cross-referencing with other books.


Yes YOU can because you're an expert and have these books, but what about the average players who only bought NM's book and wants to play the KG?

Quote:

I don't think he'd much played it before then either.

This is a bit unusual: Normally I'd criticize an author for not knowing what he's talking about, but I have plenty of experts' books on the KG already: Glazkov, Bücker, Gallagher, Bangiev (& Hergert), TJ, etc. By not being an expert NM gives a neutral (rather than disillusioned) view of the King's Gambit and I like his book for that reason.


But he did play some games. The first of them is even mentioned in Gallagher's book. IM Steffen Pedersen has written many good books both on openings that he has played and some that he never played. I don't think NM's KG book is very good regardless of whether he played the KG a lot or not.
Ok, so I will bite. Here are the grizzly details:
1) Game 3, Gallagher-G.Flear, Bern 1994. Here NM deals with Bangiev's improvement 11.e5 Qf7 12.exd6 Nd5 13.dxc7+ Kd7 14.Ng3!? quoting (copying) Bangiev's German book. However, one easily finds 14...Re8+ 15.Kd1 and now 15...Qf6! -+ as did indeed Gallagher in a subsequent article.

2) Game 4, Hector-Leko. Well, the less said the better. One could analyze some ideas after 9.d5 especially since MN did not invent this move. Alternatively 7.exf5 is seriously underestimated ny MN.

3) Game 8, Short-Shirov. MN remarks favourably on 7...Nc6 even though this was a dubious a seldom played move. 7...Rg8 preventing Be2 is much better but readers of MN's book are not made aware of this.

4) Game 9/10 Nunn-Timman. After 8.Nc3 McDonald analyzes 8...c6 and 8...Be6 but no mention of 8...Nc6 even though this had already been played in a number of games (Hector-Heine Nielsen, Copenhagen 1995, Kristiansen-Heine Nielsen, Danish Ch 1995 etc.)
After 8...c6 White's best is the simple 9.Be2. Gallagher quotes Korchnoi with this move and so does Bangiev, but it is totally absent from McDonald's book as if suddenly he does not know of either. The suspicion is confirmed insofar as MN is oblivious to Bangiev's improvement on White's play (14.Nd5! over 14.g3)

5) Game 13, Grasso-Pampa. McDonald in the notes ot Black's 8th claims that 8...0-0 is stronger than 8...Nh5 of game 14. Amazingly White wins game 13 and MN provides no improvment for Black, while in the notes to game 14 he gives the game Riemersma-Van der Sterren, which was good for Black. This is logically inconsistent and the reason is quite obvious. MN was lazy and wrong. 8...Nh5 is the better move. Even so after 8...0-0 9.Bxf4 MN missed the improvement 13...Qe4 already played in corr chess in 1997.
MN provides no further explanation for his use of exclam mark after 8...0-0. I suppose he simply copied Gallagher's punctutation, who in turn copied from Estrin&Glazkov, but this does not make it right. On top of this MN misses the transposition 8...Nh5 9.0-0 0-0! (Instead of 9...Qxh4)

6) Game 21, Chigorin-Davidov. Features the Muzio-Polerio gambit. Does MN know who Polerio was? I doubt it. MN dismissed 7.d3 as too slow citing 7...Bh6 8.Nc3 Ne7 9.e5. No mention of the better 9.Bxf4 analyzed extensively by Bücker in his book.
13.Qe2 is referred to as the MacLean attack, a common mistake. The correct name is the Lean attack. Now 13...b5 is '!' in MCO and the lamentable Complete book of gambits by one R.Keene. After 14.Nxe7 Qc5+ MN only considers 15.Kh1 not the better 15.Rf2. One cand find more improvements for White in this line but MN was not looking for one.

7) Game 22, Leisebein-Baer. 9...Qf5! Here MN only gives Estrin's 10.g4 nothing of 10.Bxf4. Likewise after 9...Qxd4+ 10.Be3 only 10...Qf6 is considered no mention of 10...Qg7.

8) Game 25. I have recently mentioned the total insuffiecieny of MN's analysis of 6...Nc6. After 6...d5 MN wonders what improvement Fedorov might have had to meet this move. Well, two better moves than 7.exd5 were already known: 7.Be5!? Coco-Tusiko, corr 1995 and 7.Nc3.

9) Game 26. MN dismissed the Hamppe-Allgaier gambit with an incredibly superficial piece of analysis, apparently unaware of 8.Bc4+ which Shulman had been succesful with in some games in 1997 and even published in a NIC Yearbook. MN's analysis of 9.Kh1 is an almost reproduction of the game Tseitlin-Marciano, Bukharest 1993 without quote. 9.Be3 was analyzed by Marciano, but of course MN does not know of this.

10) Game 32. MN only gives 14...f5? when in fact there are two better moves: 14...Nc6 (Wells-Ibragimov 1993) and 14...Qd5 (Hector-Barkhagen, Sweden 1996). Black won both of these games, and while White should be better after either move one wonders why MN gave 14...f5? preference.

11) Game 40. The continuation of this game is known to everyone but MN to be a drawing variation and was surely played with this in mind. Nevertheless, 9.Qe1! is a better try but readers of MN will never know. The fate that befalls the Steinitz gambit in this book is too sad to be told.

12) Game 45. Black could play 10...Bxf3 (Sanchez-Almeyra - Estremera, Barcelona 1992 given by Gallagher in the Trends 2 booklet.) and here White has a nice trap...but alas MN only mentions 10...Bc7.

13) Game 56. 3...Ne7 is made to look interesting. I should think that the very least one could expect was the transposition 4.Bc4 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 to the modern defence being given, but not so. Instead we are treated to a totalt disregard for White improvements. After 3...Nc6 one would expect a few lines on the simple 4.d4, instead only 4.Nc3 g5 5.h4 is given transposing to the complicated Hamppe-Allagier. I guess the reader can figure out that 5.d4 is covered elsewhere on his own. While 5.Bc4 is totally left out.

14) Game 57. The Adelaide countegambit was getting popular around 1998 but here we are given a brief fragment with 4.exf5. Nothing of 4.d4, 4.Bc4, 4.Nc3, 4.d3 or indeed 3.Nc3 transposing to the Vienna gambit. After 2...Nf6 only 3.fxe5 is given when 3.Nf3 is obviously the more felxible move.

15) Game 58. In Bücker's book he prefers 7...g5 over 7...dxe5 of the game. No mention either of 4.Nf3 or 4.Bc4.

Rest asure that I could fill the entire forum with similar examples.

16) Here are some lines left out:
2...d6
2...c6 or 2...exf4 3.Nf3 c6
2...d5 3.exd5 Bc5 (Miles)
2...Bc5 3.Nf3 Nc6 or 2...Nc6 3.Nf3 Bc5
2...exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Nc3 Quaade gambit
2...exf4 3.Nf3 d6 4.Nc3 or 4.d4 g5 5.Nc3 likely to transpose to wither the Becker defence or the Rosentreter gambit.
2...exf4 3.Nf3 h5 even though MN faced it himself!
2....exf4 3.Bc4 Ne7 (Polgar-Barua, Biel 1993)
and the list goes on and on and on...

Anyone buying this book expecting to play the KB with White must be sorely disappointed as after 3.Bc4 there is little help and after 3.Nf3 d6 or 3...g5 MN gives no line that leads to a playable game for White.

I found a lot of good things in the book as well, but for experts it is useless and for beginners there are simply not enough explanations and too many interesting variations and moves are left out for it to be useful. I am a big fan of veracity in chess books as far as it is possible but all too often they fall short. Books on the BDG for being too optimistic. MN's KG book for the opposite and simple lack of trying.
Indeed if the book is intended for the average player then why does MN make the all too common mistake of selecting the lines that GMs play against various defences instead of fun lines. E.g. 5.d4 and 5.Be2 against the Schallopp instead of 5.Qe2!?
4.Bc4 Nf6 5.e5 against the Cunningham instead of the fun 5.Nc3!? Nxe4 6.Ne5.
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #32 - 08/03/06 at 14:24:21
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blueguitar322 wrote on 08/03/06 at 12:54:43:
Haha wow. Who writes these things? According to some author friends of mine, it's not the author and they're often just as surprised as the buying public.


authors don't write them, no
it's professional sales pitch
i.e. hyperbole is the norm

Quote:
Will this be more like the Everyman "Starting Out" series or the "Play the..." series?


I suppose it's more of a Play the book
except that I'm recommending that both sides play it

Quote:
some variations that have been previously considered too crazy even for the King’s Gambit


...is mainly because I'm including 3...h5 Wink

Quote:
Looking forward to the book. Maybe somewhere on this site you could publish the "uncensored" analysis that gets cut to make the book 192 pages!


I dare say there'll be some discussion hereabouts Smiley


PS I'm a CC-IM, not a real one
  

blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #31 - 08/03/06 at 12:54:43
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I just noticed the "back of the book" dialog for Tait's upcoming "King's Gambit Uncensored" at Amazon.com 

Quote:
Perhaps no other opening in the long history of chess has created so much excitement, controversy and emotion as the King’s Gambit. Idolized in its heyday by the 19th century ‘romantic school’, dismissed by some contemporary Grandmasters and feared by others, the King’s Gambit continues to shock even the most battled-hardened players and leads to chess at its most bloodthirsty. White’s strategy is simple: on the second move he or she gambits a pawn in pursuit of active piece play and central domination. Inevitably play becomes extremely sharp – one slip by either side often leads to fatal consequences. 

In The King’s Gambit Uncensored, Jonathan Tait examines this contentious opening from both sides of the board. Using illustrative games and drawing upon his vast experience of the King’s Gambit, Tait investigates the typical tactics and strategies, and recommends a mixture of critical and fun-seeking lines for both White and Black. He also delves into some variations that have been previously considered too crazy even for the King’s Gambit – this book is truly the uncut version of this famous opening!


Haha wow. Who writes these things? According to some author friends of mine, it's not the author and they're often just as surprised as the buying public. 

Will this be more like the Everyman "Starting Out" series or the "Play the..." series?

Looking forward to the book. Maybe somewhere on this site you could publish the "uncensored" analysis that gets cut to make the book 192 pages! You know we'd love it Grin

Dave
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #30 - 08/03/06 at 12:40:42
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This is a bit unusual: Normally I'd criticize an author for not knowing what he's talking about, but I have plenty of experts' books on the KG already: Glazkov, Bücker, Gallagher, Bangiev (& Hergert), TJ, etc. By not being an expert NM gives a neutral (rather than disillusioned) view of the King's Gambit and I like his book for that reason.


Yeah, if I'm new to an opening than I prefer books that are neutral, straightforward, simple enough to grab the necessary concept and be shown the bulk of positions that can arise. I think McDonald's book did a passable job at that.

But if it's one I'm already familiar with, I'm really looking for three things: enthusiasm (anecdotes, quotes, extra-theoretical inspirations, etc), well-done analysis of relevant variations and new ideas. I can theoretical updates from Informator and online (though the online part wasn't as strong in 98). Gallagher's book was so great because it had these three ingredients. He spent tons of time on ideas that he had come up with - explaining the inspiration, going through variations, looking at it from both sides (as objectively as he could...I remember the line "It is with a heavy heart that I must announce my attempts to rehabilitate the Allegaier have been less than successful...").

Here's a sampling of McDonald's first three end-of-chapter summaries. You can't tell me these aren't depressing/discouraging for anyone buying the book to play as White.

Ch. 1 - Fischer Defense:
Quote:
Although it is difficult to agree with Fischer that 3...d6 refutes the King's Gambit, it is certainly one of the best defenses. At the time of writing, White can only hope for an 'unclear' verdict after best play in the main line, with 6...f5!? (Game 4) looking particularly challenging. The divergences from the main line with 4 Bc4 (Games 6 and 7) don't seem very promising for White either.


Ch. 2 - Kieseritzky
Quote:
The Kieseritzky is an enterprising variation that sets Black some difficult problems. However, theoretically speaking, Black does seem to have at least equal chances in almost every variation.

(...A = B, but theoretically A != B...huh?)

Ch. 3 - Other Gambits after 3 Nf3 g5 and 3...Nc6
Quote:
After 3...g5 4 Bc4 Bg7 neither the Philidor Gambit (Game 19) nor the Hanstein Gambit (Game 20) is satisfactory for White. By omitting 4 h4 (to force 4...g4) White allows his opponent to set up a solid wall of pawns on the kingside, which frustrates all his attacking aspirations. The Muzio Gambit is a lot of fun, but this may also be unsound for White (see the notes to Game 22). White's other alternatives after 3...g5, such as the Allgaier, Lolli, and Pierce Gambits are also unsound, so White should prefer the Kieseritzky.

(...in other words: these positions lead to -+; White should prefer struggling for equality)

Okay, so the others weren't terribly depressing. But if White is really struggling this bad in these lines, I want to see possible improvements. He gave one (9 d5!? after 6...f6 in Fischer) but didn't spend more than a line on it. Joe Gallagher would've spent a full page on this. If White is kicking @$$ and taking names in a variation (a conclusion that Neil never reached), then I want to see fighting improvements for Black so that I can prepare better as White.

Maybe this all comes because Joe is such an excellent author for books like this. McDonald has written some other very highly esteemed books, which leads me to think he just got depressed about White's chances while he was looking into it. It is funny that most ex-KGers seem to be the ones pressing for Black's advantage the strongest. Latent regret on giving up such a fun opening, maybe?

All this to say...I'm glad you're a part of these forums, IM Tait. I'm looking forward to a book that maintains McDonald's avoidance of BDG-esque evaluation of White's chances, but more of Gallagher's fighting spirit.
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #29 - 08/03/06 at 11:53:23
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Dragonslayer wrote on 08/03/06 at 11:09:38:
I agree that McDonald's book was not an expert's book and enough has been said about its shortcomings, but I don't think there is any excuse for the incredible number of omissions and mistakes in that tome.

(...)

Of course there are mistakes in every book, but I can give you a list of 20-30 major mistakes or omissions in McDonald's tome just off the top of my head.


Yes indeed, but I don't really care about that myself. The book is still useful for what NM brings of his own to the King's Gambit. The mistakes, omissions, irrelevancies, etc. I can ignore or correct by cross-referencing with other books.

Dragonslayer wrote on 08/03/06 at 11:09:38:
IMHO McDonald's nook is the work of someone disillusioned with White's chances in the KG. As far as I can tell McDonald has not played the KG since 1997, i.e. after the book came out.


I don't think he'd much played it before then either.

This is a bit unusual: Normally I'd criticize an author for not knowing what he's talking about, but I have plenty of experts' books on the KG already: Glazkov, Bücker, Gallagher, Bangiev (& Hergert), TJ, etc. By not being an expert NM gives a neutral (rather than disillusioned) view of the King's Gambit and I like his book for that reason.
  

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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #28 - 08/03/06 at 11:09:38
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ah, so you wrote those did you.
hello there Smiley

Yes it seems that most of TJ's old analysis group has been reunited here at Chesspub!
I agree that McDonald's book was not an expert's book and enough has been said about its shortcomings, but I don't think there is any excuse for the incredible number of omissions and mistakes in that tome.
One example should suffice: In the Falkbeer countergambit 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.d4 Nf6 5.dxe4 Nxe4 6.Nf3 Bc5 7.Qe2 Bf5 8.Nc3 Qe7 9.Be3 Bxe3 10.Qxe3 Nxc3 11.Qxe7+ Kxe7 12.bxc3 Bxc2 13.Kd2 McDonald recommends the defence 13...Ba4! (his exclam) 14.Re1 Kd6 15.Ne5 Kxd5 16.Nxf7 Re8 with good chances for a draw. 13...Ba4 is not mentioned in Gallagher's book which was probably McDonald's main source. But it is mentioned in Estrin and Glazkov's 1982 English edition (also in McDonald's bibliography). There one can read the refutation of McDonald's analysis. 15.Ng5! Kxd5 16.Re4 Be8 17.Rd4+ as occurred in the game Bronstein-Vaisman, Sandomir 1976.
When I met Thomas Johansson last year we briefly discussed McDonald's book. Quite funnily none of us needed a book to remember this Bronstein game. Still, I just checked my KG books:
One can also find this game in e.g. Soltis(1992), Raingruber&Maser(1995), Bücker(1986) and Korchnoi/Zak(1986 algebraic edition). Johansson(1998) has another game with 15.Ng5 Be8.
Of course there are mistakes in every book, but I can give you a list of 20-30 major mistakes or omissions in McDonald's tome just off the top of my head.
IMHO McDonald's nook is the work of someone disillusioned with White's chances in the KG. As far as I can tell McDonald has not played the KG since 1997, i.e. after the book came out. I remember Bent Larsen once saying that when certain players published on a particular opening, one could be certain that they would never play that opening again.
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #27 - 07/29/06 at 13:02:04
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blueguitar322 wrote on 07/28/06 at 12:53:40:
I too hope, Jon Tait, that your new book is better than McDonalds'. What a depressing read; thankfully NCO came out within a year that had all of Gallagher's replies to lift my spirits (though theory has moved on since). Either way, though, you'll have a sale here; it just depends whether or not you'd like a repeat customer Wink


grand Smiley

Neil's book wasn't so bad though. It's not an expert's book, but it's interesting as a neutral appraisal by a GM of the King's Gambit main lines.

blueguitar322 wrote on 07/28/06 at 12:53:40:
Being the maniac that I am, I read through every single thread on the KG on the first 7 pages of this forum. One thing I failed to notice was discussion of the psychological effects of the King's Gambit.


Yes, 2 f4 says let's start the fight right now - and White's aggressive stance can be intimidating.

All the same, if Black isn't ready to fight from the first move s/he shouldn't be playing 1...e5 really.

blueguitar322 wrote on 07/28/06 at 12:53:40:
at lower levels, I feel it's more important to get to positions where you feel most comfortable; not necessarily the ones that have the biggest theoretical edge.


Quite right. An equal position with some ideas what to do is much better than having a theoretical advantage with no ideas. Especially if that supossed advantage requires GM technique to realise it.
  

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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #26 - 07/29/06 at 12:25:00
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Dragonslayer wrote on 07/24/06 at 14:12:47:
I totally agree! Of course there is also good reason to analyze the KG if you're writing a book  Wink I look forward to your book and hope you can avoid the "McDonald syndrome". There is nothing more depressing than buying a book about one's favorite opening and only then find out that the author thinks it is busted.


I think every defence to the King's Gambit is OK - which is not quite the same thing as busted.

Dragonslayer wrote on 07/24/06 at 14:12:47:
At first I did not believe White had time for pawn moves but then I found the game  Raijmaekers,C-Van de Kerkhof/Helmond 1994 and started looking at some lines. 7.c3 is probably not more than unclear but at least one can play the game.


Fair enough; that's all I really want as White.

Dragonslayer wrote on 07/24/06 at 14:12:47:
In fact computers are quite useless in the analysis of gambits. They always want to limit the material deficit for the gambiteer while they spot every tactic for the defender. This is why I do not play corr chess anymore. In fact it was after an episode in the Champions League where after spending a week on a complicated rook sacrifice in the KG I went for it knowing that there was just one line (a subtle little pawn move which only revealed its value 7 or 8 plys later) for Black that did not lose within 10 moves. The lines were all complicated and difficult to find even with a computer which I tested the analysis on. So I sent the move expecting my opponent to take his time...In less than half an hour I received his reply...no point for guessing that he had made the only move. I guess he simply had a really fast computer... I would never play a line like 7.c3 against someone armed with a computer.


Yes, that's a bit tiresome. Personally I don't object to computers being used in correspondence chess. CC is the game of chess analysis and nowadays analysis is carried out with computer assistance. But when the computer's move just comes straight back, you really wonder why they bother.

As to lines like 7.c3. I agree. I'd never play that way in a serious CC tournament anymore. But that's what thematics are for Smiley

Dragonslayer wrote on 07/24/06 at 14:12:47:
Actually it is 9...Kd8 as in The King's Gambit Lives! by Michael Agermose Jensen. Correspondence Chess News Issue 45, 24 June 2001, page 24 or alternatively New In Chess Yearbook 67 (2003) The Bae game was played (16.1.2002) while I was writing the article.


ah, so you wrote those did you.
hello there Smiley
  

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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #25 - 07/28/06 at 12:53:40
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Hey all, new to this site and not very good at chess ( Embarrassed) but been a KG lover for my entire life. But wow this is quite a resource for someone like me. All these lines like Rosentreter that I've been analyzing on my own for a while are old hat around here.

I too hope, Jon Tait, that your new book is better than McDonalds'. What a depressing read; thankfully NCO came out within a year that had all of Gallagher's replies to lift my spirits (though theory has moved on since). Either way, though, you'll have a sale here; it just depends whether or not you'd like a repeat customer Wink

Being the maniac that I am, I read through every single thread on the KG on the first 7 pages of this forum. One thing I failed to notice was discussion of the psychological effects of the King's Gambit. If Black accepts the gambit (and plays the challenging continuations like 3 Nf3 g5) he's deliberately entered into White's desired opening. Stuff is so sharp in some lines that both sides must play pretty close to perfectly in the first 15 moves. It's no wonder that when surprised, most of the big GMs choose to play a slightly worse, more solid line in response. And - with an opening like 2 f4!? that inspires radical (even blind) loyalty - White will almost always feel more comfortable knowing the theory and have a better chance to react appropriately to a novelty.

A lot of fuss and provocation was made by certain individuals, which I mostly ignored. But for those mentioning that the KG won't survive as White's only response to 1 e4 at the highest level, they're probably correct in this information age. But then again, not much will. There's an answer out there for almost everything; time is much more limited than theory. I think that's part of the reason that the big guns throw out Bishop's, Four Knights, Scotch, Vienna, King's Gambit, etc as well as the Ruy. It's probably motivation for why Morozevich seemingly plays a different opening every time he's at the chess board. He probably gets such a psychological edge from that: how do you prepare for a guy who plays everything?

So no, the KG is not a one-weapon-win-all. Probably not a one-weapon-win-most. But to really succeed at that level, it appears that openings are just tools; some are better for job A, others are better for job B. The KG might be quite effective against a positional player who wants to feel they control the situation at all times. It will probably be less effective against another tactical genius who is more than willing to force White to prove his point.

But at lower levels, I feel it's more important to get to positions where you feel most comfortable; not necessarily the ones that have the biggest theoretical edge. For this, the KG is a great way to spend more time working on tactics/strategy/attacking technique/endgames (because most equal material endgames are better for White due to central/queenside majority) and less on opening preperation. Would this work at the highest level? Not a chance. But one of the issues with the openings with a large body of theory is like what the fabled Najdorf student said: "I felt like I spent the last three years learning variations, not how to play in the opening." (Though I love me some Najdorf)

I do know one thing: say I have a big game coming up where I must win with White to walk away with prize money. Assume I know all the open games with equal understanding. Which second move will I choose: 2 f4 or 2 Nf3? In a game I must win it's gotta be 2 f4 because of the Petroff. Followed by 3 Bc4.
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #24 - 07/24/06 at 14:12:47
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Basically this comes down to why you play chess. Personally I think that, yes, people should just play the King's Gambit: because it's fun. OK, professionals may need more than that - every point and half point means money - but for the rest of us, we can do whatever we like. In that case what you want is a few ideas, ways to set your opponents problems. Analyse everything out beforehand and you end up not playing these lines at all, so you've pretty much done your opponents' work for them. Really, a hopeful "unclear" is almost more useful to the practical King's Gambiteer than five pages of analysis with the final assessment that (at best) White doesn't have anything.

Then again, analysis can be fun in itself, which is the reason I play correspondence chess - and nowadays I mostly stick to thematic tournaments so I can analyse the lines I like without having to bother about the result too much.

I totally agree! Of course there is also good reason to analyze the KG if you're writing a book  Wink I look forward to your book and hope you can avoid the "McDonald syndrome". There is nothing more depressing than buying a book about one's favorite opening and only then find out that the author thinks it is busted.

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It's not really a void principle: White has sacrificed a piece; the only plan is to rush the rest out as fast as possible before Black consolidates. Unless White achieves something s/he will lose; it's too late to try and limit the damage (though of course the computer wants to do that with 7.c3).

On the Rosentreter: your concrete analysis is that White has a draw after 7 Bc4. Does s/he have as much after 7 c3 - ?

Well actually, I think Black should be after more than a draw in any case, so (7 Bc4) 7...d5 8 Bxd5 Nxd4 is probably not the best sequence. I suppose we could stop analysis with 7 c3 "unclear" and just play from there.

I know why the computer likes 7.c3 but I came to the move through a process of elimination. 7.Bc4 is a draw and I fail to see Black making more than that (which makes it ideal to draw a higher rated opponent with White). 7.d5 Nce7 helps Black by blocking the diagonal and bringing the knight round to g6 to defend f4, though White may still have a playable game. 7.Nc3? allows 7...Nxd4 followed by ...Ne6 when we all know that Black cannot lose. So what's left? 7.c3 does defend the pawn but more importantly if prevents Black from putting a knight on e6 and gives White time to finish his development.
At first I did not believe White had time for pawn moves but then I found the game  Raijmaekers,C-Van de Kerkhof/Helmond 1994 and started looking at some lines. 7.c3 is probably not more than unclear but at least one can play the game. In fact computers are quite useless in the analysis of gambits. They always want to limit the material deficit for the gambiteer while they spot every tactic for the defender. This is why I do not play corr chess anymore. In fact it was after an episode in the Champions League where after spending a week on a complicated rook sacrifice in the KG I went for it knowing that there was just one line (a subtle little pawn move which only revealed its value 7 or 8 plys later) for Black that did not lose within 10 moves. The lines were all complicated and difficult to find even with a computer which I tested the analysis on. So I sent the move expecting my opponent to take his time...In less than half an hour I received his reply...no point for guessing that he had made the only move. I guess he simply had a really fast computer... I would never play a line like 7.c3 against someone armed with a computer.

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Yes indeed; as in Westerinen-Bae, Oslo 2002, and later Fedorov-Carlsen, Dubai 2004. Dunno what the Grandmasters' current obsession with 5...d6 is all about though. It's just an equalizing line. Black should be trying to win!

Actually it is 9...Kd8 as in The King's Gambit Lives! by Michael Agermose Jensen. Correspondence Chess News Issue 45, 24 June 2001, page 24 or alternatively New In Chess Yearbook 67 (2003) The Bae game was played (16.1.2002) while I was writing the article.
But if you try to win, you may also loose!
5...Nf6 is a better attempt to win but here White also has chances to play for a win.
Funny thing about the Fedorov-Carlsen game though. According to my database. Fedorov's last KG game before that was against Godena in Batumi 16.6.2002 (½-½, 39). Then no games in 2003 and none in 2004 except for that game against Carlsen in the 8th round at Dubai 27.4.2004... Now Carlsen is quoted in New In Chess as saying that he prepared all those lines against the KG and offered a draw only when he felt he was slightly better. Being that Carlsen just needed to draw to become the youngest GM a "title" of considerable PR value I find this statement a tad suspicious. Why would Carlsen prepare for the KG when Fedorov had only played 2.Nf3 and occasionally 2.Bc4 for almost two years? Indeed, why did Fedorov wheel out the KG for just this game? Perhaps he was playing for first price? Anyway, Fedorov has not attempted the KG since then. [/quote]
  
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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #23 - 07/24/06 at 13:26:00
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[Basically this comes down to why you play chess. Personally I think that, yes, people should just play the King's Gambit: because it's fun. OK, professionals may need more than that - every point and half point means money - but for the rest of us, we can do whatever we like. In that case what you want is a few ideas, ways to set your opponents problems. Analyse everything out beforehand and you end up not playing these lines at all, so you've pretty much done your opponents' work for them. Really, a hopeful "unclear" is almost more useful to the practical King's Gambiteer than five pages of analysis with the final assessment that (at best) White doesn't have anything.


Basically I don't see a contradiction here. When I prepare/study an opening, I am not really interested in proving an advantage for White or equality for Black. Imo the first does not exist anyway. I want to get interesting positions and know how to play them (something I will never really achieve with my ELO 1800). For instance after 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d5 4.exd5 Nf6 I prefer 5.Be2, though I absolutely do not claim anything for White. Still this move made me decide to play the KG.
Moreover I just like analysing - whenever I feel like and the variations that do interest me. So why should not I analyse AND play the KG (and other openings)? Sorry IM Tait (I am old-fashioned, so no Jon for me), but I will not follow your advise and analyse exactly as much, as long and whenever I feel like.  Smiley
Gr.
  

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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #22 - 07/24/06 at 11:49:01
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Dragonslayer wrote on 07/23/06 at 18:24:46:
Hi Jon, welcome to the board and thanks for bringing up all those KG threads!


Hi Smiley

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I have done a lot of analysis on all KG lines after 3.Nf3 g5 and I disagree that you can just play these lines on the basis of principles in favour of concrete variations and analysis.


Basically this comes down to why you play chess. Personally I think that, yes, people should just play the King's Gambit: because it's fun. OK, professionals may need more than that - every point and half point means money - but for the rest of us, we can do whatever we like. In that case what you want is a few ideas, ways to set your opponents problems. Analyse everything out beforehand and you end up not playing these lines at all, so you've pretty much done your opponents' work for them. Really, a hopeful "unclear" is almost more useful to the practical King's Gambiteer than five pages of analysis with the final assessment that (at best) White doesn't have anything.

Then again, analysis can be fun in itself, which is the reason I play correspondence chess - and nowadays I mostly stick to thematic tournaments so I can analyse the lines I like without having to bother about the result too much.

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This leaves 7.c3 the only viable option. The move is not based on the void principle of defending a pawn when a piece down but based on concrete analysis.


It's not really a void principle: White has sacrificed a piece; the only plan is to rush the rest out as fast as possible before Black consolidates. Unless White achieves something s/he will lose; it's too late to try and limit the damage (though of course the computer wants to do that with 7.c3).

On the Rosentreter: your concrete analysis is that White has a draw after 7 Bc4. Does s/he have as much after 7 c3 - ?

Well actually, I think Black should be after more than a draw in any case, so (7 Bc4) 7...d5 8 Bxd5 Nxd4 is probably not the best sequence. I suppose we could stop analysis with 7 c3 "unclear" and just play from there.

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However, I do agree with you that the search for an advantage for White after 3...g5 has so far been fruitless and way too time-consuming. I almost had it in the Kieseritzky until I found 5...d6 6.Nxg4 Nf6 7.Nxf6+ Qxf6 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.Bb5 Kd8!


Yes indeed; as in Westerinen-Bae, Oslo 2002, and later Fedorov-Carlsen, Dubai 2004. Dunno what the Grandmasters' current obsession with 5...d6 is all about though. It's just an equalizing line. Black should be trying to win!
  

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Re: A new look at the King's Gambit
Reply #21 - 07/23/06 at 18:24:46
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Dragonslayer wrote on 12/02/05 at 08:54:14:
In the Rosentreter gambit White has to go for 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4 g4! 5.Bxf4 gxf3 6.Qxf3 Nc6! 7.c3


having given up a piece already you don't want to start worrying about pawns Wink

better to play 7.Bc4 and sacrifice on f7 as well if necessary

edit: seems people here already know about 7.Bc4 d5 etc. oops.


Hi Jon, welcome to the board and thanks for bringing up all those KG threads!

I have done a lot of analysis on all KG lines after 3.Nf3 g5 and I disagree that you can just play these lines on the basis of principles in favour of concrete variations and analysis. Cf. the Rosentreter with 6...Nc6! Here it is absolutely necessary to know which lines are a draw and which aren't. After 7.Bc4 one can read in Soltis' book on the KG that White wins after 7...Nxd4 8.Bxf7+! and not a word about 7...d5! 8.Bxd5 Nxd4! Of course the move ...d5 is a known device in the KG, but so is Bc4, so concrete analysis is needed to figure out that 7...d5 8.Bxd5 Nxd4 9.Bxf7+ Kxf7 10.Qh5+ Ke6! draws while 10...Kg7 gives White winning chances.
Alternatively, McDonald gives 7.d5 Nd4 8.Qd3 but nothing of the better 7...Nce7!
This leaves 7.c3 the only viable option. The move is not based on the void principle of defending a pawn when a piece down but based on concrete analysis.

However, I do agree with you that the search for an advantage for White after 3...g5 has so far been fruitless and way too time-consuming. I almost had it in the Kieseritzky until I found 5...d6 6.Nxg4 Nf6 7.Nxf6+ Qxf6 8.Nc3 Nc6 9.Bb5 Kd8!
  
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