Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C03: Is 3... Be7 really that good vs the Tarrasch? (Read 7080 times)
Klick
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #10 - 03/06/06 at 18:58:32
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I wonder if not after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Be7 4.Bd3 c5 5.dxc Nd7!? is viable. Both Watson and McDonald questions the line (but doesn`t provide any deep analysis) after 6.exd exd 7.b4 a4 8.a3 axb 9.Bb2, but after 9...bxa 10.Bxg7 Bf6 11.Bxh8 Bxh8 12.Ra2 Nxc5 black has the bishop-pair and extra q-side passer for the exchange. I`m playing a bit around with this line with Fritz as 5.Nd7 would be a good move if this line proves ok for black.
  

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TomR
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #9 - 02/15/06 at 16:40:47
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3...Be7 is very solid, i've played it at over 2300 level and theoretically its fine. 4.e5 is played surprisingly little.. and best seems ..c5 5.Qg4 Kf8 with unclear play.

The most usual line to contend with recently is 4.Ngf3 with ..Nf6 5.e5 Nfd7 transposing into 'Universal Tarrasch' with possibly an edge to White.. though this is very far from clear!
  
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Klick
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #8 - 01/30/06 at 16:22:19
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"...if White plays solidly, Black struggles." ?

Care to give some lines? Statistically Be7 is black`s best move, it`s viability shown by the fact that several strong players use it.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #7 - 01/30/06 at 03:29:21
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In a more general vein:

I've seen several players around here play 3...Be7, but they seem to think of it as some sort of trick opening because if White plays solidly, Black struggles.  This is below the 2300USCF level at least.  Was there an opening video or DVD that recommended 3...Be7 without giving much concrete analysis?
  
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dom
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #6 - 01/28/06 at 14:56:30
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4...Nh6 was the subject of Chesspublishing French update september 2003, with the game Glek-Farago, Porto San Giorgo 2003 as the reference game.

5.Ndf3 Nf5 (5...c5 6.c3 Nf5 Larsen-Diez del Corral,Orense 1975 (Kuligowski) or 6...Nc6 ) 6.Bd3 c5 Glek-Farago 2003. 

Other choices: 6... Nc6!? Gajewski-Bartel;Laczna 2002 (Watson) ; 6..b6 Hebert-Nurmi, Canada 1974 (Psakhis Nd2)

-------------

About 4...c5 5.Qg4!? g5 White can play 6.Qh5 cxd4 7.Ndf3 and advantage to White according to Psakhis, but Black has to attack on the queenside: 7...Qc7 8.Nh3 Qxc2 9.Nhxg5 Bb4+ 10.Bd2 Bxd2+ 11.Nxd2 Qg6 12.Nxg6 hxg6 13.Ngf3 Nc6 14.Nb3 Nge7 with minimal advantage to White.

  

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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #5 - 01/26/06 at 09:13:17
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Quote:
4...Nh6 is an option you might want to consider.


Yes. 4...Nh6 would be my choice.
  

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Klick
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #4 - 01/24/06 at 21:19:18
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4...Nh6 is an option you might want to consider.
  

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Martin Carpenter(Guest)
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #3 - 01/24/06 at 18:11:42
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The problem with 5 .. g5 is iirc meant to be 6 Qh5 putting a firm stop to blacks kingside expansion and leaving g5 looking really rather odd.
When you can get in h5 & g5 as in some of the Kf8 lines it all makes more sense.
  
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8arms
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #2 - 01/24/06 at 16:12:38
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Thanx castlerock for that, nice to see someone else is having the same problems ... any other players who play 3... Be7?!

Must admit wasn't aware of Moro's ...g5 move - I shall check it out!
  
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castlerock
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Re: Is 3... Be7 really that good against the Tarra
Reply #1 - 01/24/06 at 14:36:37
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8arms wrote on 01/24/06 at 12:53:51:
Hello All !!

I seem to be having massive problems with this ...Be7 setup in the following opening sequence :-


Welcome aboard.  Grin

3...Be7 is a top quality waiting move. No doubt about that. 4.e5 and 5.Qg4 is the most critical test of the line. Leaving the g7 pawn is not possible due to the presence of g8 knight. Hence g7 pawn has to be defended. Watson suggests 5...Kg8 and 5...g6 as repertoire suggestions.

5...Kg8 is considered to be the most critical test. You might be aware. Adams-Morozevich discussed this position six or seven times. I feel, if 5...Kg8 has to be played, I think Morozevich's 7...h5, harrasing the white queen with king side pawns might me an interesting idea. I don't fancy other tries, any way. Here is that game.

Adams,M (2716) - Morozevich,A (2723) [C03]
Sarajevo Sarajevo (5), 21.05.1999

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Be7 4.e5 c5 5.Qg4 Kf8 6.dxc5 Nc6 7.Ngf3 h5 8.Qg3 h4 9.Qf4 g5 10.Qa4 Bd7 11.Bb5 a6 12.Bxc6 Bxc6 13.Qd4 Nh6 14.Nb3 Nf5 15.Qd3 d4 16.Rg1 Qc7 17.Nfxd4 Qxe5+ 18.Be3 Qxh2 19.0-0-0 Nxd4 20.Qxd4 Rh6 21.Qg4 Qe5 22.Nd4 Bf6 23.c3 Qe4 24.Qe2 Ba4 25.b3 Be8 26.Kb2 Kg8 27.Rge1 Rg6 28.Qf1 Qe5 29.Qc4 Qc7 30.Nf3 Rc8 31.Qg4 b6 32.Bd4 Bxd4 33.cxd4 bxc5 34.d5 c4 35.Qxc4 Qxc4 36.bxc4 exd5 37.cxd5 Rd8 38.Re5 f6 39.Re7 Kf8 40.Ra7 f5 41.Rh7 Kg8 42.Rb7 Bb5 43.Rc1 Rg7 44.Rxg7+ Kxg7 45.Nxg5 Rxd5 46.Nf3 Kf6 47.Nxh4 Rd4 48.Nf3 Rg4 49.g3 f4 50.Nh2 Rg8 51.Rc3 fxg3 52.Rxg3 Rxg3 53.fxg3 Kf5 54.Kc3 Ke4 55.Kd2 Bd7 56.a3 Be6 57.Nf1 ½-½

Other tries are 5...Bf8, 5...g6 and 5...g5. Some how my classical mind considers 5...Bf8 dubious at best. 5...g6, the other repertoire suggestion of Watson is too Fridzy to my liking. If you don't mind memorisation and Fridzy lines, I think 5...g6 is eminently playable. I hate it for the same reason.

That leaves us with 5...g5, my personal liking. It is interesting or dubious depending on perception. I find it interesting. If I get back to 3...Be7 I'll play 5...g5. Here  is an interesting win by who else ? Cheesy

Adams,M (2716) - Morozevich,A (2723) [C03]
Frankfurt-West Masters Frankfurt (10), 01.07.1999

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Be7 4.e5 c5 5.Qg4 g5 6.dxc5 h5 7.Bb5+ Bd7 8.Qe2 Qc7 9.Nb3 Bxb5 10.Qxb5+ Nc6 11.f4 0-0-0 12.Nf3 g4 13.Nfd4 Nxd4 14.Nxd4 Bxc5 15.Be3 Bxd4 16.Bxd4 Kb8 17.Bc5 Ka8 18.Bd6 Qxc2 19.0-0 Rc8 20.f5 Nh6 21.Rf2 Qe4 22.fxe6 fxe6 23.Raf1 h4 24.Qd7 Qd4 25.g3 hxg3 26.hxg3 Nf5 27.Qxe6 Nxg3 0-1

I know this didn't help you much since it is this precise move that drove me from 3...Be7. In all fairness, I was not aware of Moro's 5...g5 then.

Just my 2c.



  

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8arms
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C03: Is 3... Be7 really that good vs the Tarrasch?
01/24/06 at 12:53:51
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Hello All !!

I seem to be having massive problems with this ...Be7 setup in the following opening sequence :-

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Be7 4. e5 (this appears the most annoying move for Black) c5 5. Qg4 Kf8 6. dxc5 Nc6 7. Ngf3 (John Watson appears to suggest this for Black in 'Play the French (3rd edition)' but it doesn't look comfortable for Black)

Has anyone faced these 4. e5 positions as Black?
« Last Edit: 08/02/11 at 19:41:57 by dom »  
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