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Poll Question: Best non-QG after 1.d4 d5
bars   pie

2.Bg5 Hodgson Attack    
  10 (10.4%)
2.Nc3 Veresov    
  14 (14.6%)
2.Nf3 Torre    
  15 (15.6%)
2.Nf3 Colle    
  15 (15.6%)
2.Nf3 Colle Zukertort    
  19 (19.8%)
2.Nf3 London    
  6 (6.2%)
2.Bf4 London    
  14 (14.6%)
2.e3 Stonewall Attack    
  3 (3.1%)




Total votes: 96
« Created by: TalJechin on: 06/18/06 at 20:46:00 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a QG? (Read 52414 times)
MNb
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #79 - 03/28/07 at 02:40:05
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Does the website also tell, how White prevents ...e5 after 6...d6 (iso d5) 7.e4 fxe4 8.Nxe4 Nc6 9.Bd3 h6 ?
  

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nyoke
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #78 - 03/27/07 at 11:20:02
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Just a quote picked from the New In Chess website :

"B4) 2...f5 3.c4 Nf6 4.Nc3, Be7?! (Black should really transpose to the English Defence
with 4...b6 5.Nf3 Bb7) 5.Qc2! (opening the attack on the light squares without having to fear a
check on b4; on 5. Nf3, Ne4!? is an interesting possibility) -diagram inserted-
5...0-0 6.Nf3 d5 (e2-e4 was coming) 7.Bf4, with a ‘Trashcan-Stonewall’ with White’s bishop outside the pawn chain. "

Can't comment upon it : have not run into 2...f5 yet.
  
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dmp4373
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #77 - 03/24/07 at 06:48:54
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 MNb makes an excellent point, 1.d4 e6 2.a3 f5. How useful is the move 2.a3 against the Stonewall or Classical Dutch? In his book PLAY THE CLASSICAL DUTCH, Simon Williams says that if Black can get in e6-e5 without suffering some liability, Black has at least equality. And the move 2.a3 does nothing to secure the e5-square.
 
  
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TalJechin
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #76 - 03/03/07 at 14:53:19
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Quote:
Hello everyone,
What about the Barry attack? Is it a viable option to the QG? Can it be played against 1. d4 d5? Or is only good against 1. d4 Nf6?


The Barry usually arises after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Bf4. So after 1.d4 d5 black must fianketto with ...g6 at move 2 or 3, which is quite uncommon. But it might of course occur after 2.Nf3, 2.Bf4 or 2.Nc3 ...
  
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grayson
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #75 - 03/02/07 at 17:10:12
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Hello everyone,
What about the Barry attack? Is it a viable option to the QG? Can it be played against 1. d4 d5? Or is only good against 1. d4 Nf6?
  
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MNb
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #74 - 02/27/07 at 20:44:32
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Or 1.d4 e6 2.a3 f5, when White's 2nd has severely restricted his/her own options.
  

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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #73 - 02/27/07 at 17:34:55
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Yes, but if Black is willing to play an inferior Benoni (i.e. without c4), he might as well go for 1.d4 c5 immediately.

I've had my fair share of useless confrontations on this thread, and certainly don't want part of any more, but it's a bit odd to call 1. d4 e6 a passive move, no ? And no one has claimed 2. a3 to be unplayable, but the fact that White sometimes moves his a-pawn in the Tarrasch does not constitute sufficient justification (whether or not it comes from elsewhere. Please note this is not an attack on Eric or his creation).  Black can play ...c5 without ...d5 and vice-versa.  
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #72 - 02/27/07 at 17:22:10
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Markovich wrote on 02/27/07 at 17:00:06:
lnn2 wrote on 06/20/06 at 13:03:44:
http://www.newinchess.com/Archives/SurveysList.aspx?&OpeningID=22

--> link on the right "A White Chameleon"

I thought his idea of 1. d4 e6 2. a3 was actually quite useful!


What makes 2. a3 a playable move is that 1...e6 is such a passive one.  We arrived at a similar conclusion concerning 1. d4 Nf6  2. c4 e6  3. a3, aiming for a Normal Tarrasch.  When the two players strive to excel each other in unambitiousness, what can you do?  I doubt if I'd buy a book devoted to the theory of this.

I suspect that the "perfect" reply to 1. d4 e6 is 2. e4, but I play d4 exclusively, and I can't afford to have reams of French variations in my repertoire.  By the same token, it can always be said of 1...e6 that Black must be willing to risk the French (or the, what is it called? Nimzo-Larsen?).  One of these days when faced with 1...e6, I declare I am just going to play 2. e4 and try to find good moves.


I think you mean the Barcza(-Larsen) or Franco-Benoni or Franco-Sicilian ...well, in any case not the Franco-American, that was a brand of canned spaghetti from the 1970s  :-D
  
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Markovich
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #71 - 02/27/07 at 17:00:06
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lnn2 wrote on 06/20/06 at 13:03:44:
http://www.newinchess.com/Archives/SurveysList.aspx?&OpeningID=22

--> link on the right "A White Chameleon"

I thought his idea of 1. d4 e6 2. a3 was actually quite useful!


What makes 2. a3 a playable move is that 1...e6 is such a passive one.  We arrived at a similar conclusion concerning 1. d4 Nf6  2. c4 e6  3. a3, aiming for a Normal Tarrasch.  When the two players strive to excel each other in unambitiousness, what can you do?  I doubt if I'd buy a book devoted to the theory of this.

I suspect that the "perfect" reply to 1. d4 e6 is 2. e4, but I play d4 exclusively, and I can't afford to have reams of French variations in my repertoire.  By the same token, it can always be said of 1...e6 that Black must be willing to risk the French (or the, what is it called? Nimzo-Larsen?).  One of these days when faced with 1...e6, I declare I am just going to play 2. e4 and try to find good moves.
  

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nyoke
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #70 - 02/27/07 at 10:11:00
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I meant 1. d4, Nf6 2. Nf3, e6 3. g3 (Bg5 is not obligatory for all  I know).
A problem with this poll is that it mixes anti-indians and double d-pawn-openings...
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #69 - 02/26/07 at 15:52:48
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nyoke wrote on 02/26/07 at 10:54:39:
Why is 3. g3 (I don't know what to call it ) not included in this list ?


You mean 2. g3 don't you?  It's chess, but White's problem there is that the black QB just comes out.
  

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nyoke
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #68 - 02/26/07 at 10:54:39
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Why is 3. g3 (I don't know what to call it ) not included in this list ?
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #67 - 11/18/06 at 08:43:11
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1.d4 d5 2.a3 a6! =+
  
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #66 - 10/05/06 at 09:59:33
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Öng bång väng blang.
  

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GMEricPrie
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Re: 1.d4 d5 - what's white's best alternative to a
Reply #65 - 10/05/06 at 09:28:25
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1.d4 d5 2.Ff4 Cf6 3.e3 c5 4.c3 Cc6 5.Cd2 Ff5 6.Cgf3 et maintenant, plutôt Db6 ou e6?  

Ah oui  Smiley

So I would say it is simpler and more complicated at the same time, basically a matter of taste :

-6...Qb6 7.Qb3 c4 8.Qxb6 axb6 9.a3 b5 10.Rc1 and White has managed to evacuate the a file thanks to the extra-tempo thus freezing a slightly favourable structure on the queenside. However there is 10...Nh5!? now, and both camps have to evaluate correctly the complications resulting from 11.Be5! f6 12.Bc7 e5! 13.h3!

-6...e6 7.Qb3 (7.Be2 Be7 8.0-0 is exactly a Prié reversed without the move a6; thanks por the thrown line Arkhein Smiley) 7...Qd7!? ( 7...Qc8 is quieter though less ambitious) 8.Ne5 Nxe5 9.dxe5 c4 10.Nxc4! dxc4 11.Bxc4 0-0-0 12.exf6 Qd2+ 13.Kf1 gxf6 with compensations.

I have also checked 5.Qb3 and it is not a Novelty, since played in 2002 by London specialist Schlindwein who obtained a great position with it.

I am aware as well I have mentionned the name of GM rainer Knaak without giving the source.
It is because we have come to the same conclusion about the London, published in the last Chessbase Magazine 113 as for his.
Through a different move order though for he recommends 2...c5 ( and I 2...Nf6) and is not scared by 3.e4 on the basis of Winants-Adly Olm Turin 2006. However, I am persuaded the last word for White has not been said there...
His point is the gambit Novelty 3.e3 Nc6 4.c3 Qb6 5.Qb3 c4 6.Qc2 e5! ( instead of the messy 6...Bf5 7.Qxf5 Qxb2 8.Qxd5 Qxa1 9.Qb5) 7.dxe5 Bf5 8.Qc1 g5!    

 
  
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