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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C11: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd (Read 344287 times)
OstapBender
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #136 - 07/25/06 at 14:52:50
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Keano wrote on 07/25/06 at 14:11:04:
Any chance somone could tell us what Khalifman thinks is Blacks best bet Huh  My instincts tell me moving the Bishop to either b4 or e7 must be the logical choice.


Keano wrote on 07/24/06 at 16:48:42:
BadPritt wrote on 07/21/06 at 13:26:20:
No, Anand-Morozevich is not in Khalifman's book. His main variation is 10)...a6 11)Nb3 Bb4 12)Bd3 b5 13)g4 with a lot of exciting possibillities that seem favourable to white, but he also adds that the variation is developing on a daily basis and that there's a lot of blank spots left.


However, I don't know if this means Khalifman thinks 11...Bb4 is Black's best bet.  I'm tempted to buy the Khalifman book (is it volume 6 of the Anand/White series?), after which I would of course lend it to my friend SF whenever he needed it... Wink
  

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Keano
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #135 - 07/25/06 at 14:11:04
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Any chance somone could tell us what Khalifman thinks is Blacks best bet Huh  My instincts tell me moving the Bishop to either b4 or e7 must be the logical choice.
  
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Keano
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #134 - 07/25/06 at 12:29:32
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You are making sense John, but speaking off the top of my head what happens if a White Knight comes to c5!? -i.e. after ..b4 then Na4 clogging things up with Nc5 coming in some lines

Afterthought - after ...Bxe3 then Qxe3 ...b5 and now maybe that strange move a3 which I never like playing when I am castled queenside - but it might be good here  

After-Afterthought - I dont like a3 much, I´ll stick with my instincts and develop with Bd3 after ...b5 - then Qh3 is coming isnt it  Tongue  It seems worth a look though...
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #133 - 07/25/06 at 12:13:08
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Oh and by the way, from a position of some considerable ignorance about this opening line, I would have thought 11...Bxe3 made some sense. Black's plan is ...b5-b4, ..a5 and ..Ba6, isn't it? That's what theory has him do after most White moves instead of Nb3, but he has to play ...N or Bxd4 first, is it not? I don't really understand why Nb3 should make Black abandon that plan. In fact that knight looks like a juicy target for ...a5-a4 to me. Anyone like to explain?
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #132 - 07/25/06 at 12:09:44
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Re something much higher up the thread; I would like to say that SmyslovFan's 13...g5 in the piece sacrifice line was in fact introduced into modern theory in the lesser-known game Korchnoi-Cox, simultaneous display, Shropshire, 1980 or so. The game finished in a draw after Black had good chances, and the great man was kind enough to tell me it was an interesting idea. I noticed he didn't rush out and play it, mind.
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #131 - 07/25/06 at 08:40:23
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Smyslov_Fan - you sound worried! Unfortunately I cannot be of much help - I thought that ...Bb4 was best but now that I look at Shipovs notes to the Anand-Moro game in the link Ostap Bender provided earlier I realise there was a lot more to this game than initially met the eye. In this game Anand played the older move Rhf1 rather than Nijboers speciality g4, and followed up with a novelty a3 at some point (this is modern chess! when I was a junior I was told never to play a move like a3 when I was castled queenside and Black was set up to attack in that direction - nowadays its all about specifics!). Anyway it seems there is a lot to investigate for White in terms of attacking opportunities in this line.... I have no time to investigate at the moment but ...b6 seems to make a little bit of sense
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #130 - 07/25/06 at 08:03:30
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Ok, 


Here are the chief candidate moves for Black after 11.Nb3:

  • 11...Bb4
  • 11...Be7
  • 11...b6
  • 11...Bxe3
  • 11...Something else.



11...Bb4 is the most popular move, and was played in the important game, Anand-Morozevich, San Luis 2005.  Anand destroyed Moro and made the entire opening look awful.  But it may not be so bad if Black can come up with improvements after 12.Rhf1!  (12.Bd3 and 12.g4 have also scored well for White.)

11...Be7 has been tried several times, but it just doesn't solve any of Black's problems.

11...b6 is the most interesting of the alternatives to 11...Bb4.  However, that too has not scored well for Black.

11...Bxe3 is thematically suicidal.  Psakhis considers this to be just bad and spends almost no time on it.  Suicidal or not though, it has had some positive results in the few games (between weaker players generally) that I've found.

Black's basic problems can be summarized simply:

A) White will get a tremendous king-side attack with some variation on a theme of Qf2-h4, R-3rd rank (hence Anand's Rhf1), sac on h7 or push f5-f6 and mate.

B) The endgames for Black are generally classically abysmal.  The light  squared Bishop rarely plays any part except as spectator.  GM Rowson showed that the N vs B endgame in this case really is horrible for Black.  That's why 11...Bxe3 is so rarely played.  In most games, White simply crushes Black on the kingside while the Bishop does nothing.

The most common variation goes something like:

11.Nb3 Bb4 12.Bd3 b5 and White is already gunning for a huge kingside attack without any worries from Black's B on c8.

I'd appreciate any advice and concrete variations!

  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #129 - 07/25/06 at 04:17:06
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Hmm.

I was fully expecting 11.Qf2.  11.h4 is still a dangerous variation.  I don't have a high opinion of 11.Kb1, but I've never played against it.  We can discuss these moves later.

Let me get my notes together and come up with the list of candidate moves against 11.Nb3.  As far as I know, this is a somewhat rare line and I need to find out as much as I can about it.

Undecided

(That's the closest smiley face I see to the one that looks like I'm thinking.)

  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5
Reply #128 - 07/25/06 at 03:37:21
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woofwoof wrote on 07/25/06 at 03:19:47:
I found another diagram composer site. This one's even easier to use. Just set up the diagram as you wld with Fritz/Junior on the site. Not as cumbersome  as with the French one (thats why i recommended using the chess engine in the 1st place for that site.)

http://zwiggybo.com/chessboard/composer/index.php

Thanks woofwoof,
This works and is easy to use.
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5
Reply #127 - 07/25/06 at 03:19:47
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I found another diagram composer site. This one's even easier to use. Just set up the diagram as you wld with Fritz/Junior on the site. Not as cumbersome  as with the French one (thats why i recommended using the chess engine in the 1st place for that site.)

http://zwiggybo.com/chessboard/composer/index.php
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #126 - 07/25/06 at 03:15:28
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On the assumption that both 11.Qf2 and 11.Nb3 were acceptable to everyone, I chose 11.Nb3.  So we have:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Qd2 0-0 10.0-0-0 a6 11.Nb3


current position


Image generated at the site suggested below by woofwoof:
http://zwiggybo.com/chessboard/composer/index.php
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #125 - 07/25/06 at 03:02:48
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I don't see any diagram anymore either.
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5
Reply #124 - 07/25/06 at 02:33:53
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OstapBender wrote on 07/25/06 at 00:28:43:
Anyone else having problems today with position diagrams not appearing properly in previous posts?

(anyone having problems with the alliteration of this post? Roll Eyes)


Me! all the diagrams which are linked to that french chess diagram composer have disappered. It happened last night!
  

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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #123 - 07/25/06 at 01:09:10
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Ostap,

To make matters worse, the notes to the Anand-Moro game was indeed in the French e-zine, and it was a French Steinitz, but it was his game played back in March, 2005 at the Amber Blindfold competition.  It's the wrong variation.  Here's the web link, just in case anyone's interested.  It was posted at chesspub earlier (by photophore or willempie perhaps?).

http://www.echecs.asso.fr/(hgcbxg55wuf5gp453kxtjou3)/Ag/EM81/p34_plus_belles_par...
  
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Re: Steinitz:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd
Reply #122 - 07/25/06 at 00:34:23
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/25/06 at 00:29:56:
The San Luis tournament was in Informant 94.  Unfortunately, I've temporarily misplaced that copy. Cry

Really?  This is unfortunate.  Roll Eyes

Thanks for the info on the issue, though. Smiley  Maybe if I purchase it, you can borrow mine.  Undecided
  

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