I'll use the top of this post to put a diagram on this page to remind everyone of the current game position:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 9.Qd2 0-0 10.0-0-0 a6 11.Nb3 Bb4 12.Bd3 b5



The main candidate moves are:

• 13.Rhf1
• 13.g4

and lines based on these moves have been under discussion these past few days.

MarinFan wrote on 08/04/06 at 09:05:03:

I've just taken a very cursory look at 13.g4 Bb7 14.a3 and I am doubtful that this move merits further attention.  Here's my reasoning.

The difference between this variation and those where 14.a3 works well is that Black's 13...Bb7 defends the c6-knight so that after 14...Be7 15.Nd4 Black can simply continue with 15...b4 (there may even be something better, but this is enough to dislike the line for White).  Now after 16.axb4 Bxb4 17.Nxc6 Bxc6 18.Bd4 (after this, White is finally in a position to consider f4-f5 - but it's too late).  I think Black is already substantially better here.  For example, 18...Qa5 19.Kb1 Rab8 

... and Black runs to get some butter and jam, because White is toast!

I'm sure that this line hardly represents best play, but I seriously doubt that White's play can be improved in a way that would make 14.a3 viable.  With c6-knight already protected and e5 under pressure, this move accomplishes nothing for White (other than poorly mimicing Anand) - it merely serves to accelerate Black's queenside counterplay.

So, unless someone can make a convincing argument to the contrary, 14.a3 in no longer in consideration in the 13.g4 Bb7 line.  

However, 14.a3 remains a strong contender in the 13.Rhf1 Nb6 and 13.g4 Nb6 lines.

Ostap, thanks for the clarification. have to admit that i've lost track to where we were at eversince i returned from my 5 day retreat!

My! Plenty of detailed analysis going on.....plenty of interesting analysis diagrams too! Where did you get all the time to do all this?

MarinFan wrote on 08/04/06 at 09:05:03:


It was suggested by Keano some couple of pgs back.

Keano wrote on 08/01/06 at 12:07:11:

MarinFan wrote on 08/04/06 at 09:05:03:

In the name of "decent club players" everywhere, I accept that as a compliment.  

MarinFan wrote on 08/04/06 at 09:05:03:

Was the horse already dead?  This might be too fine a distinction for us "decent club players" to recognize.  

Keano wrote on 08/04/06 at 11:02:34:

Sure.  I think this must be true.  Right now, we're in the process of looking for new options and a natural part of such a process is finding out that some of these options don't hold up.

Back on move 11, my own feeling was that Black's safe choice was 11...b6 but this does not seem very ambitious.  11...Bb4 is a much better choice from the perspective of offering opportunities for analysis and "getting under the skin" of the 11.Nb3 line - i.e., the stated purpose of these game threads.  There is little doubt that the vicious attacking variations (aka the dead horses I'm so fond of flogging) will not show up in the main line of this game.

Bye Ostap B

Hello,

About Memers a5 idea's, they seem to offer some hope for black, or at least some fun, OstapBender has been having a great time flogging the dead black horse in many lines.  After 13.g4 Bb7 14.Rhg1 a5!? maybe white should consider declining with 15Nd4 or some other move.
       Similar ideas seem to work after 13.Rhf1 Bb7 14.Rf3 a5!??15.Rh3 
i.e. 15 ...h6?!, maybe justified after Rh3 , 16 Bb5 a4 17 Nd4 a3  etc

Has anyone suggested the amazing 14a3 for white yet, I wonder where I got this idea from.
                Seriously though it is valuable to see if black can survive in this line, Nb3 Bb4. However, with rating points at stake, would be more interested to test White's technique in, for example, Dom's line, because already convinced that a decent club player can play a direct attack at a high standard.

Bye John S

I think I can pretty much demonstrate a win for White in the following line:
13.Rhf1 Nb6 14.a3!? Be7 15.Nd4 Bb7 16.Nxc6 Bxc6 17.f5 Nd7! 18.f6! gxf6 19.exf6 Bxf6 

and now 
20.Bh6 is very strong (I expect other moves win as well, but this is enough)

20...Re8

[Note that 20...Bg7 can be answered by 21.Rf3 and after 21...Ne5 22.Rh3 Nxd3+ 23.cxd3 Be5 24.d4 Bd6 25.Bg7! f6 26.Qh6+-.  Although, I haven't looked at it exhaustively, I don't think there is much hope for 20...Bg7.  It just seems to lose more quickly than 20...Re8.]

and now
21.Qf4 looks very strong. (again, there might be other winning moves)

Here I analyzed 3 replies: (A) 21…Qe7, (B) 21…Kh8 and (C) 21…e5

(A) 21…Qe7

22.Qg4+ Kh8 23.Bxh7!  This bishop sac is featured in all three lines.

23...Bxc3

[Note that 23...Kxh7 is answered by 24.Qh5 Kg8 25.Rf4 and White wins quickly(other rook lifts, such as 25.Rd3, should also work here).]

24.bxc3 f5 25.Bxf5 exf5 26.Rxf5 Rg8 27.Qh5 Rxg2

[27...Qh7 28.Rf7+-]

28.Be3+ Qh7 29.Bd4+ Kg8 30.Rg5+ Rxg5 31.Qxg5+ Kf7 32.Re1+-

(B) 21...Kh8 

22.Qg4 b4 

[22...e5 23.Bxh7 Kxh7 24.Qh5  (24.Nxd5 Bxd5 25.Rxd5 Rg8 26.Qh3 is a slight variant on the same idea, and should also win) 24...Kg8 25.Nxd5 Bxd5 26.Rxd5 Re6 27.Rd3+-]

23.axb4 Rb8 24.Bxh7! A recurring theme.

24...Qe7 

[24...Kxh7 25.Qh5 Kg8 26.Rd3+-]

25.Qh3 Rxb4 

[25...Qxb4 26.Rxf6 Nxf6 27.Bg5 Qxb2+ 28.Kd2 Nxh7 29.Bf6+ Kg8 30.Qg4+ Ng5 31.Qxg5+ Kf8 32.Qg7#]
[25...Bh4 26.Rd4+-]

26.Be4 Kg8 27.Qg4+ Kh8 28.Qh5 Kg8 29.Rd3+-

(C) 21...e5

22.Qg4+ Kh8 23.Bxh7! And again.

23...Kxh7 24.Qh5

[24.Nxd5 Bxd5 25.Rxd5 Rg8 26.Qh3 is a slight variant on the same idea, and should also win]

24...Kg8 25.Nxd5 Bxd5 26.Rxd5 Re6 27.Rd3+-

Keano,

While this is not exhaustive, I think there is enough here to suggest that your 15...Bb7/17...Nd7 line is not viable.

Black's position in this diagram is highly suspicious. I don't have the time now to work out all details, so only a few samples:
20.Rf3 Be5! (d4? 21.Bxh7+! and Ne5? 21.Rh3 Ng6 22.Qe2 win) 21.Bf4 f6 22.Bxe5 Nxe5 23.Rg3+ is a critical line.
20.Bf4 (intending 20.Bxh7+) 21.Bh6 (21.Bxh7+ might not be correct now) e4 22.Bxe4 dxe4 23.Qd6 Rc8 and I haven't found more than a draw for White. This should inspire Ostapbender to look for more.
Don't rely on computer evaluation here. In some lines Black's unsafe king provides long term compensation.