Hello,

1. After taking the week off, I was expecting more moves made. The line after 16.Qe1 Qh4 allows Black couple of extra moves, but not enough. The h2 pawn is pure poison. So, after 17.Bd4 Rfc8 18.Qf1 (not 18.Qf2), Black must decide upon 18....Qe7, 18....Nf8, 18.....Bxc3 and 18...h6?!. White's threat of playing Ne2 and/or stranding the Black Queen with g5 makes this position favorable for White.

2.MNB, your 16.Qf2 Bxc3 17.bxc3 Qe7 18.Kb1 Rfc8 and the real mucky 18.Rdg1
Qa3+ 19.Kd1 does look critical.

3.SF, I think the model game to follow is GM Nijboer vs GM Glek(French Opening Specialist) 2003. 14....Rc8 and consider a latter Bxc3. To me 14....Na5 still looks like an experiment by lower rated players. I should be at the CO Open, not as a player, but as Kibitzer.

Memers

Hello,

Still following this thread with interest, although haven't posted recently because been away on holiday, and finding it hard to find good ideas for black. Since the game has been in progress another game with 15 Bd4 has been played, not sure of grade of players.

[Event "Tilburg Stukkenjagers op-A"]
[Site "Tilburg"]
[Date "2006.08.18"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Van Haastert,Edwin"]
[Black "Clijsen,Mark"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "C11"]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 cxd4 8.Nxd4 Bc5 
9.Qd2 a6 10.0-0-0 0-0 11.Nb3 Bb4 12.Bd3 b5 13.g4 Bb7 14.Rhg1 Na5 15.Bd4 Qc7 16.Nxa5 Bxa5 
17.Qf2 Bb6 18.Bxb6 Qxb6 19.Qh4 Qe3+ 20.Kb1 g6 21.g5 Rfc8 22.Rg3 Qf2 23.Rf1 Qd2 24.Rh3 Nf8 
25.Nd1 d4 26.Nf2 Bg2 27.Ne4 Bxe4 28.Bxe4 Ra7 29.Qe1 Qxe1+ 30.Rxe1 Nd7 31.Rd3 Rc4 32.b3 Rc3 
33.Rxd4 Rac7 34.Rd3 Kf8 35.Red1 Ke7 36.Rxc3 Rxc3 37.Kb2 Rh3 38.Bc6 Nc5 39.Rd2 h6 40.gxh6 Rxh6 
41.Ka3 a5 42.Bxb5 Rh4 43.Rd4 g5 44.Rc4  1-0

By look of it though, a TN with 15Rg3 is going to be played. 

Bye John S

I was going to delete them after I'd tried them, but got tied up.  Sorry for wasting space/electrons.

Tony, 

On the positive side, I may have gotten you to look at the Steinitz position!

(Tony was referring to my posted failed attempts at getting a diagram.)

@whiteattack shredder...OK for A) line. I understand now why it's useful to play Be7 (better to forbid Qh4 and if g5 then f5 push is no more useful).

But I prefer A) 15.Rg3!? Nc4 16.Qe1 Nxe3 (or 16...Qh4=) 17.Rh3 g6 18.Qxe3 Qc7 and if 19.Qf2 /Qg3 then  19...Be7

For some food for thought, after: 15.Rg3 Nc4 16.Qe1 Qh4 17.Bd4 Rfc8 18.Qf2 Bxc3 19.Bxc3 a5 20.Qf1 b4 21.Rh3 Qxg4 Shredder thinks the position is equal, with draws by repetition in its two main lines it thinks are best.

dom wrote on 08/25/06 at 16:32:24:


In line A) Shredder 10 thinks 27.Re3 is stronger than 27.Rhf3, and that white has a winning (2 pawn) advantage here. It gives 27...Qg7 28.Qf4 Rd8 29.Re7 as its main line.

Perhaps 18...Be7 is stronger. A line I was looking at goes: 19.Ne2 Re8 20.Ned4 Rc8 21.Kb1 Qc7 22.Re1 Bf8 23.Qg3 Bg7 24.Qh4 Nf8 25.Nf3 Qe7. If white retreats his queen with 26.Qf2 then a possible line is: 26...Qc7 27.f5 exf5 28.gxf5 Bxe5 29.Nxe5 Rxe5 30.Rf1 Rce8 31.Rg3 Qe7 32.Rgg1 Kh8 33.Qf4 gxf5 34.Bxf5 Ng6 35.Qg4 Qh4 36.Qd1 d4 37.Nc1 Re3 38.Rg4 Qxh2 39.Rxd4 Kg8 and black is fine (lol).

After 15.Bd4 I like 15...Nc6 attacking the bishop. 

If 16.Qf2 my analysis with Shredder goes ...Nxd4 17.Qxd4 Be7 18.Qe3 Qb6 19.Qxb6 Nxb6 20.Ne2 Nc4 21.g5 b4 22.Kb1 Rfc8 23.Nbd4 a5 24.Rg3 a4 and black shouldn't be worse.

If 16.Rg3 then my analysis with Shedder goes ...Nd4 17.Qxd4 Qc7 18.Rh3 g6 19.Qe1 Be7 20.g5 Rfc8 21.Qh4 Nf8 and black should be fine. 

Of course, these lines aren't forced, but I do think 15...Nc6 is probably the strongest move.

White could play 16.Be3 offering to repeat moves. In that case black could play Nxb3, but I still think axb3! is strong for white. Black has trouble pushing his queenside pawns here, so his pieces tend to be restricted. However, after (15.Bd4 Nxb3 16.axb3 Rc8 and 17.Rg3, I like the idea of 17...Nc5 with ...Ne4 to follow. Watson says in the chapter on the Classical Variation in his most recent Play the French book that when black gets ...Ne4 in he's normally o.k.

A variation might go 18.Rh3 Ne4 19.Bxe4 dxe4 20.f5 Bxc3 21.Bxc3 Qxd2 22.Rxd2 Rfd8 23.f6 Rxd2 24.Kxd2 Rd8 25.Ke2 Bd5 26.g5 Rc8 and I think if black sits tight he should be able to hold the draw, if I understand the position correctly.

Cheers.