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Normal Topic Scotch Opening-time for an update? (Read 4888 times)
Girkassa
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Re: Scotch Opening-time for an update?
Reply #6 - 11/21/07 at 17:40:41
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 11/07/07 at 12:05:15:
I used to play 4...Nf6 all the time, but I was put off by several games where my tatty queenside structure caused me problems in the endgame. Clearly 4...Bc5 is currently considered stronger, and all the really strong players are playing it at the moment, which is why it is receiving so much more attention on the site.
Still, I will look around for some decent recent 4...Nf6 games, although the last time I saw Mark play it he lost horribly! Sad


Interesting! I've been playing 4...Nf6 for years, and I hardly ever reach a bad endgame! I've had only one terrible experience (which I drew because he blundered a bishop instead of winning a rook!), but that was due to an attack on my king! I played badly throughout that game though, I'm not blaming it on the opening. I've been puzzled that 4...Bc5 has become so much more popular, as I still, after 7 years or so, still haven't found any clear way to an advantage for White against 4...Nf6.
  
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lg
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Re: Scotch Opening-time for an update?
Reply #5 - 11/11/07 at 13:36:49
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Can anyone direct me to recent surveys (or perhaps, recent posts here) on the Scotch ?

I am aware of Emm's Starting out book (which I like a lot) and several e4-e5 books like
Davies and the recent one by MMarin (which by the way is also a very good book, although in
a rather different way from more conventional repertoire books - in fact, i woudl like to see a book
on the Alekhine defence written like this one).
In fact, i would like recent updates 4...Bc6.
In this line I have noticed recent games with the line 5. Qf3 which was slightly mentioned 
in Emms' book and suggested in McDonalds book "play e4" but it appears that a lot has happened
since.
I also noticed Ivanchuk's "revival" of the old g3 and Bg2 line in a game against Leko.
And, of course, the same question applies to recent news on 4...Nf6. 

thanks, lg
  
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Seth_Xoma
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Re: Scotch Opening-time for an update?
Reply #4 - 11/09/07 at 01:06:46
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Thank you, Tony! Much appreciated.
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Scotch Opening-time for an update?
Reply #3 - 11/07/07 at 12:05:15
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I used to play 4...Nf6 all the time, but I was put off by several games where my tatty queenside structure caused me problems in the endgame. Clearly 4...Bc5 is currently considered stronger, and all the really strong players are playing it at the moment, which is why it is receiving so much more attention on the site.
Still, I will look around for some decent recent 4...Nf6 games, although the last time I saw Mark play it he lost horribly! Sad
  
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Seth_Xoma
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Re: Scotch Opening-time for an update?
Reply #2 - 11/07/07 at 01:58:56
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Thank you, Toppy. Very useful information for me.

So I guess all I have to do is refute 4...Bc5. Hmm, this may take awhile  Grin
  
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Re: Scotch Opening-time for an update?
Reply #1 - 11/02/07 at 00:13:57
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 11/01/07 at 22:47:23:
Hi everyone,

I was investigating the Scotch as a possibility for white, when I ran into a bit of a problem. I have "Play the Open Games as Black" by Emms (juuuust a bit outdated now, but still useful for introducing ideas). I then started to prod around on Chesspublishing and found plenty of material on 4...Bc5, but no updates on 4...Nf6 since 2003. That left me scratching my head a bit. So I started searching the 1.e4 e5 forums on here, and was amazed to see several threads on the Belgrade, Latvian, Schliemann, King's Gambits. Through 20 pages and 2-3 years I searched, and found just a handful of posts!

So what does this mean? Is 4...Bc5 considered such a good equalizing attempt as to abandon 4...Nf6 altogether? I used to play 4....Nf6 as black when I played 1...e5 several years ago so I find this a bit puzzling. Does no one care about preparing against the Scotch, thus making it a perfect surprise weapon? Or does no one bother preparing it as white!

Another question: does anyone know of a website that has some potentially useful information on the Scotch? In particular the 4...Nf6 line?


I'm not aware of any websites dealing with the Scotch Game specifically, and the current popularity of 4...Bc5 over 4...Nf6 is probably due to the whims of fashion moreso that any problems attributed to 4...Nf6 which is still perfectly fine theoretically.

Some relatively recent books that cover the 4...Nf6 line are:

From White's point of view: An Attacking Repertoire for White by Sam Collins
                                       Starting Out: 1.e4! by Neil McDonald

From Black's point of View: The Chess Advantage in Black and White by Larry Kaufman
                                        Beating the Open Games by Mihail Marin

The lack of interest on the forum is less clear, perhaps the 4...Nf6 variation is simply not considered as sexy an alternative as 4...Bc5, who knows? I for one prefer 4...Bc5 as the variations feel more logical and easier to play for Black than those emanating from 4...Nf6, but I don't think either move is better than the other, its just a matter of personal taste.

For what its worth life long 1...e5 devotee Mark Hebden continues to use 4...Nf6 exclusively.

Toppy Smiley
  
The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Seth_Xoma
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Scotch Opening-time for an update?
11/01/07 at 22:47:23
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Hi everyone,

I was investigating the Scotch as a possibility for white, when I ran into a bit of a problem. I have "Play the Open Games as Black" by Emms (juuuust a bit outdated now, but still useful for introducing ideas). I then started to prod around on Chesspublishing and found plenty of material on 4...Bc5, but no updates on 4...Nf6 since 2003. That left me scratching my head a bit. So I started searching the 1.e4 e5 forums on here, and was amazed to see several threads on the Belgrade, Latvian, Schliemann, King's Gambits. Through 20 pages and 2-3 years I searched, and found just a handful of posts!

So what does this mean? Is 4...Bc5 considered such a good equalizing attempt as to abandon 4...Nf6 altogether? I used to play 4....Nf6 as black when I played 1...e5 several years ago so I find this a bit puzzling. Does no one care about preparing against the Scotch, thus making it a perfect surprise weapon? Or does no one bother preparing it as white!

Another question: does anyone know of a website that has some potentially useful information on the Scotch? In particular the 4...Nf6 line?
  
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