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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Owen's Defence: Literature Check (Read 46248 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #16 - 08/17/09 at 17:55:29
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BirdBrain wrote on 08/17/09 at 17:44:35:
 

1. e4 b6 2. d4 Bb7 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Bd3 Nc6 6. Nf3 Nb4...something like that.


If it indeed went like that, I wonder how long she spent on 6. Ng(I'm guessing)f3.
  
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #15 - 08/17/09 at 17:44:35
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I may not be the caliber of player that many are on this site, but 1...b6 was my first defense that I used as a "universal" approach, of course thanks to the Bauer book, "Play 1...b6!".  I got the opportunity to play against a 2100+ player (cannot remember the name) and I was only 1400+ at the time.  Within less than 10 moves, I had already made her think.  the beginning went as follows, if I remember (been 2-3 years probably) - 

1. e4 b6 2. d4 Bb7 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Bd3 Nc6 6. Nf3 Nb4...something like that.   I'm not saying my play was accurate, but that the original character of the opening definitely made her think.  And I have often played opponents who underestimate the potential of Black to counter-punch White's center, especially with resources against the d5 advance, which many players have made without understanding the position.  Often, I have won a pawn in the first ten moves.  Admittedly, the opponents weren't top-caliber, but even against a stronger opponent, the opening phase at least came out equal many times. 

I agree totally with Craig's reason for trying 1...b6.
  
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Schaakhamster
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #14 - 08/17/09 at 17:38:34
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CraigEvans wrote on 08/17/09 at 17:05:28:
True... but I will also learn a lot about types of positions that I have previously avoided (which will help me as white and black with my chess in general, not just with this opening), and I know very few people who are "prepared" and "comfortable" with these positions as white, which means that my additional preparation and familiarity will very quickly outweigh a little additional study time.

I could put in just a little work and go back to playing 1...e5, or continue with my 1...Nf6 of the last year... but it's not going to catch anyone out, players as white are going to be able to dictate the play, and ultimately I'm not convinced that either opening is necessarily much stronger than 1...b6. If I have familiarity with the theory and understand the ideas of 1...e5, I will have spent one heck of a lot more time - and I'll still have no edge over a 1.e4 player, who gets to play these lines quite often and will have his own experiences to draw on. In comparison, how often will he have faced 1...b6? Even if he knows the theory, it's likely he will not have a great deal of experience in handling the positions, and that's where the practicality of it comes in. 

In 11 or so years, and nearly 700 OTB games, I have never faced 1...b6 as white, and only once faced 1.b3 as black. In comparison, I've been involved in 80 or so sicilian games, probably 150+ 1.e4 e5 games, and even 20 or so pirc/modern games. Assuming most others have similar distributions, it is clear that most people have far more experience playing against some openings than others... and this experience and knowledge of typical plans is far more valuable than having read a long time ago in MCO that 3.Bd3 is meant to lead to a comfortable edge about 10 moves later.


Initially you'll catch your opponents out. But after while people will catch on and b6 looks to me like one can prepare against it in a relative short time. So one probably has to prepare some other openings to keep your opponents guessing.

Anyway I played the Alekhine for a while and at my level (1700) most of my opponents didn't have the faintest idea what to play (either kicking pawns across the board like there was no tomorrow or defending the pawn with Nc3 or even d3).
  
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CraigEvans
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #13 - 08/17/09 at 17:05:28
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True... but I will also learn a lot about types of positions that I have previously avoided (which will help me as white and black with my chess in general, not just with this opening), and I know very few people who are "prepared" and "comfortable" with these positions as white, which means that my additional preparation and familiarity will very quickly outweigh a little additional study time.

I could put in just a little work and go back to playing 1...e5, or continue with my 1...Nf6 of the last year... but it's not going to catch anyone out, players as white are going to be able to dictate the play, and ultimately I'm not convinced that either opening is necessarily much stronger than 1...b6. If I have familiarity with the theory and understand the ideas of 1...e5, I will have spent one heck of a lot more time - and I'll still have no edge over a 1.e4 player, who gets to play these lines quite often and will have his own experiences to draw on. In comparison, how often will he have faced 1...b6? Even if he knows the theory, it's likely he will not have a great deal of experience in handling the positions, and that's where the practicality of it comes in. 

In 11 or so years, and nearly 700 OTB games, I have never faced 1...b6 as white, and only once faced 1.b3 as black. In comparison, I've been involved in 80 or so sicilian games, probably 150+ 1.e4 e5 games, and even 20 or so pirc/modern games. Assuming most others have similar distributions, it is clear that most people have far more experience playing against some openings than others... and this experience and knowledge of typical plans is far more valuable than having read a long time ago in MCO that 3.Bd3 is meant to lead to a comfortable edge about 10 moves later.
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #12 - 08/17/09 at 12:06:43
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CraigEvans wrote on 08/17/09 at 11:33:16:

Also, if there is truth to the idea that 1...b6 is less respectable in some way, then I would like to at least have a better-than-average working knowledge to offset that


I doubt if b6 has ever been in fashion.  Cheesy 

The "problem" with this logic is that you'll spend as much time studying this opening in order to feel comfortable as on a more "respectable" opening. 

  
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CraigEvans
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #11 - 08/17/09 at 11:33:16
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Thank you all for the considered replies, and especially the ones that have cited free internet sources! 

I know that the idea of ...b6 is to avoid a mass of theory, and indeed I do not plan to spend years laboring over the opening such as one might do in the Najdorf or Dragon. However, I would like to make a decent fist at learning an opening for once, rather than my usual style "So, the Alekhine you say? How's that one go? Oh, 1...Nf6, knight gets booted over the queenside, you play ...c5 at some point and try not to get squashed? Okay, let's give it a whirl." 

Also, if there is truth to the idea that 1...b6 is less respectable in some way, then I would like to at least have a better-than-average working knowledge to offset that - especially since part of the reason for playing the opening is exactly because I am terrible at this sort of chess, and wish to try and tackle my weaknesses head-on. I do not believe that Bauer's book alone would fill me with full confidence, since he does not explain typical plans etc so much (from the reviews I have read). However, it seems that between this book, the Kaissiber issues and maybe Soltis or Hort's book (which I would expect to contain something more in the way of plan explanations) I will be able to put together a repertoire.

To answer your question Laramonet, there are a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have never particularly concerned myself with "reliability" - most openings go through trendy and untrendy phases. I remember when I started playing chess 11 years ago, the Alekhine was "practically refuted"... I am still yet to be convinced that there are lines that give white even a tangible edge. At my level, people are not going to play too many exemplar 1.d4 games - I have a shocking record against 1.d4 with most main line defences, and a plus score with things like the Englund, Albin and Fajarowicz - so I am not concerned that someone might refute it off the bat, and I will be lumbered with game after game where I have no chance. Further, I have never enjoyed playing 20-move-deep main lines, looking for a novelty on move 35 or trotting out half a game of previously-played moves. Owen's seems like a good way of getting a completely new type of position for me to practice, whilst also avoiding the majority of bookophiles' pet lines, and without being too bad to not give reasonable chances. Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. If nothing else, it will be an interesting journey.

However, I do not intend to play "hippo-style". Another weakness of mine is playing with kingside fianchettos, and it is a future problem for me to address, but one major weakness at a time is quite enough! Maybe, once I improve my understanding and handling of the semi-closed positions like in the Owen's, and am more comfortable with my handling of positions against pawn centres that are not so susceptible to dismantling, then I will move onto perhaps looking at hippo-type structures.
  

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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #10 - 08/16/09 at 10:53:40
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CraigEvans wrote on 08/14/09 at 11:17:11:
It would be great if a publisher could be found to publish in English however. [...] However, I'm sure you've looked into this yourself and there is no doubt a reason that it doesn't work.

I am not aware of a reason why an English version shouldn't have success. Negotiations with an US publisher looked promising, but ended because of a weak dollar and other economic problems in the USA. I am praying daily that the dollar soon regains its old strength. 

Klaus Gawehns played the Owen both in otb and corr. chess, and he carefully analyzed his sources: (a) Hort's book (London 1981), (b) Herbrechtsmeier: Die Owen-Verteidigung, available for free in the internet, (c) Chess Informants, (d) Bauer's book (2005), (e) Khalifman's work. Even if now and then you are left guessing about German text, Gawehns always uses ECO symbols like +/- and =+, and it is really important what Gawehns says about critical lines. When you have just lost a game because of an incorrect analysis in an older work, it seems reasonable to consult Gawehns (2008) to see where you went wrong. Language problems are secondary, when you are only looking for a single better move. - As you'll win a prize in the competition anyway, I am sure there will be an inexpensive solution.
  
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #9 - 08/16/09 at 09:19:52
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I thought the whole point of 1...b6 was to avoid having to study several books' worth of theory. 

However, on the positive side, this means more books that your opponents won't have studied... Wink
  

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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #8 - 08/16/09 at 08:56:13
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CraigEvans wrote on 08/13/09 at 14:12:19:
Evening all,

I'm looking for some resources to start adding 1...b6 to my repertoire for the future. I have Odessky's book on the English Defence, and the Bauer "Play 1...b6" book is an obvious choice, but are there any other good/indispensable books on the opening and, if so, how likely am I to be able to get copies of these?

I'm a complete duffer when it comes to this opening, so any help is appreciated! Cheers.


When googling, I just happened to see that there seems to be an ebook in chessbase format by Andrew Martin giving a "b6-repertoire" for black, might be related to his 'Hippo in the swamp book', I dunno... Anyhow, it shouldn't be a problem finding it with google.
  
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #7 - 08/14/09 at 17:09:56
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Hi Craig,
There are two from Soltis "The Defense 1...P-QN3" and Winning with the English Defense". Daniel King did "English Defence" for Everyman and Batsford published "The English Defence" by Keene, Plaskett and Tisdall. Others I've heard of are two pamphlets by Otto Hardy, "b6" by Kapitaniak and "Owen's defense" by Bill Wall. The only problem is the most recent of all those I've listed is the King book and that was from 1999.
Why b6 anyway ? I can see it as attractive against 1.c4 but is it reliable against e4 and d4 ? I can see it complementing your Alekhine's but what about against 1.d4 ?
  
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #6 - 08/14/09 at 12:18:05
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CraigEvans wrote on 08/13/09 at 14:12:19:
Evening all,

I'm looking for some resources to start adding 1...b6 to my repertoire for the future. I have Odessky's book on the English Defence, and the Bauer "Play 1...b6" book is an obvious choice, but are there any other good/indispensable books on the opening and, if so, how likely am I to be able to get copies of these?

I'm a complete duffer when it comes to this opening, so any help is appreciated! Cheers.


IIrc Flear had 1 or 2 articles on 1...b6 in one of the SOS-books...

But I doubt you need so many more sources, just go thru some commented games with fritz11/rybka3 at hand and you'll develop an understanding of virtually any opening.
  
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #5 - 08/14/09 at 12:06:31
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You should consider whether you against certain lines would like to play the opening Hippo-style (pawns on b6, d6, e6 and g6, bishops on b7 and g7 and knights on d7 and e7). In that case you may want to look into 'Tigers Modern' (Hillarp Persson, Quality Chess 2005) and 'Starting Out: The Modern (Davies, Everyman 2008). Martin's 'The Hippopotamus Rises' (Batsford 2006) is among his weaker efforts.
  

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CraigEvans
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #4 - 08/14/09 at 11:17:11
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 08/13/09 at 17:19:57:
Great idea - if there is a publisher from Wales who wants to publish it in a readable version, he should contact me. There is already a sister magazine of Kaissiber in Italian language.


If there's any publisher who can make Welsh readable, he/she deserves a whole stash of medals.  Wink

It would be great if a publisher could be found to publish in English however. I'd imagine a high percentage of chess players speak either German, Italian or English (or possibly French) and this extra option would widen the market considerably - although a lot of people are prepared to try and muddle through with a small working knowledge of German or Italian I would imagine. However, I'm sure you've looked into this yourself and there is no doubt a reason that it doesn't work. Until it can I'll try to muddle along like everyone else!

Anyway, are there any other books which are available and of use? I know the Owen's is quite rare, but I would imagine someone like Soltis or Schiller must have written on it previously? I've heard that Bauer's book, whilst good, is hardly comprehensive, so there must be other recommendable works? Given that in my first attempt to play it I essayed the (apparently ridiculous) 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.Nc3 e5 - which it seems isn't the theoretical move...
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #3 - 08/13/09 at 17:19:57
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Great idea - if there is a publisher from Wales who wants to publish it in a readable version, he should contact me. There is already a sister magazine of Kaissiber in Italian language.
  
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CraigEvans
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Re: Owen's Defence: Literature Check
Reply #2 - 08/13/09 at 16:46:28
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Thanks Links.. one question though, how navigable are they without any knowledge of German? I bought a previous Kaissiber issue for an article on the Alekhine and found it very hard going - not insurmountable, but given my loathing for any hard work anyway, having an article which I cannot read doesn't help my feelings!

It's a shame Stefan doesn't produce an English (or Welsh!) version of Kaissiber - perhaps it would sell very well?
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

"If others have seen further than me, it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders."
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