Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6 (Read 9541 times)
FrankieJay
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


USCF 2357

Posts: 35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 10/20/09
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #15 - 07/23/10 at 22:52:08
Post Tools
I just read the NIC Forum cited above and noted that 15. Qc2 does indeed look to be a move almost equivalent to 15. Qg4.  So, the lone inferior move seems to be 15...Qe3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FrankieJay
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


USCF 2357

Posts: 35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 10/20/09
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #14 - 07/23/10 at 22:46:15
Post Tools
I don't know how excited you should get.  Black did lose Smiley

And also, white played 15. Qc2, which looks somewhat inferior after 15...Rb8, instead of 15. Qg4 cited by TonyRo and the NIC article.

So I don't know that this game really made any advance in theory.  Both players made less-good 15th moves and white ended up better.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Kubi
Junior Member
**
Offline


Practice makes perfect

Posts: 52
Location: Turkiye
Joined: 06/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #13 - 07/23/10 at 20:39:59
Post Tools
After I put below message I witnessed this game played at Turkish 2nd Chess League and got very excited. Seeing a strong player like Kovchan play 7...Nc6 Najdorf after yearbook cast doubts on the line was exciting for me.
After 13.c3 ! Kovchan does not play 13...Qxb2 maybe because he does not want to enter the variations mentioned at yearbook.

[Event "Turkish 2nd League"]
[Site "KONYA"]
[Date "2010.07.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "AGAMALIEV, GAMIL."]
[Black "KOVCHAN, ALEXANDER."]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B96"]
[WhiteElo "2473"]
[BlackElo "2571"]


1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Nc6 8. Nxc6
bxc6 9. e5 h6 10. Bh4 g5 11. fxg5 Nd5 12. Ne4 Qb6 13. c3 dxe5 14. g6 fxg6 15.
Qc2 Qe3+ 16. Be2 Nf4 17. Nf6+ Kf7 18. Ng4 Qxe2+ 19. Qxe2 Nxe2 20. Nxe5+ Ke8 21.
Kxe2 g5 22. Bg3 c5 23. Rhf1 Rh7 24. Rad1 Bb7 25. Ng6 Be7 26. Nxe7 Rxe7 27. Rf6
Bxg2 28. Rxh6 Bd5 29. b3 g4 30. Ke3 Raa7 31. c4 Bf3 32. Rh8+ Kf7 33. Rdd8 e5
34. h4 Rad7 35. Rh7+ Kg6 36. Rxd7 Rxh7 37. Rxh7 Kxh7 38. Bxe5 Kg6 39. Bd6 Kh5
40. Bg3 Bc6 41. Kf4 Be8 42. Ke5 Bg6 43. Kd6 Bb1 44. Kxc5 Bxa2 45. b4 Kg6 46. b5
axb5 47. cxb5 Bb1 48. b6 Be4 49. Kd6 Kf5 50. Kc7 Bf3 51. b7 Bxb7 52. Kxb7 Ke4
53. Kc6 Kf3 54. Be5 Ke4 55. Kd6 Kf5 56. Kd5 Kg6 57. Ke4 Kh5 58. Bg3 Kg6 59. Kf4
Kh5 60. Kf5 1-0

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Kubi
Junior Member
**
Offline


Practice makes perfect

Posts: 52
Location: Turkiye
Joined: 06/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #12 - 06/20/10 at 10:45:04
Post Tools
Very interesting subject for me. Because of results coming from recent games I decided to play 8.e5 instead of 8.Nxc6 (that's mainly due to 12...Qb6) but I was totally unaware of 13.c3 line. Now I will take a fresh look at 8.Nxc6.
This sort of discoveries make me like chesspub.com. My thanks to everybody who contributes something here.
Now it is time to switch on Rybka and check the below lines.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OstapBender
God Member
*****
Offline


There is no spoon.

Posts: 1491
Location: not in Kansas anymore
Joined: 10/16/04
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #11 - 06/07/10 at 07:21:52
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 05/11/10 at 23:20:30:
In my home analysis, I have 11.fxg5 Nd5 12. Ne4 Qb6 13. c3! Qxb2 14. Rb1 Qxa2 15. g6! fxg6 16. Bd3! Nf4 17. Nf6+ Kf7 18. Bxg6+!!+-, as well as 13...dxe5 14. g6! fxg6 15. Qg4! as leading to trouble for Black.

These exact  lines are discussed by Kuzmin in the NIC Yearbook 94 forum, which can be obtained for free at:
http://www.newinchess.com/Archives/PDFs/010Forum94.pdf
The bishop sac 18. Bxg6 at the end of your/Kuzmin's first line is pretty cool!
The second line comes from the game Ziatdinov-Loginov, Tashkent 1987, which Kuzmin gives as better for White after 15...Qe3+ 16.Be2 Nf4 17.Qf3 Qxe2+ 18.Qxe2 Nxe2 19.Kxe2 g5 20.Bg3 Bg7 21.Rhf1 (which was the game continuation).
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FrankieJay
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


USCF 2357

Posts: 35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 10/20/09
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #10 - 05/28/10 at 21:31:16
Post Tools
yeah, I think Kylemeister is right.  Qd2 gives a rather unfortunate Rauzer variation where h6 cannot be met by a bishop retreat.  Plus, given the above lines, I don't see why white would want to avoid these lines.  White does indeed seem to sit very well in these positions.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4928
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #9 - 05/28/10 at 18:51:21
Post Tools
I would have thought that 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cd 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 a6 8. f4 is questionable due to 8...h6.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
OrangeCounty
Full Member
***
Offline


You played that like it
was a good move!

Posts: 171
Joined: 05/26/10
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #8 - 05/28/10 at 18:40:48
Post Tools
You could always play Qd2, heading for the Rauzer; while this isn't a big deal generally you've gotten a Classical Sicilian with ...a6, which is fine but it's just a line (and not a line without chances for White).  Also might give you better chances of getting what you want as an open Sicilian player (attacking chances in a developed position) rather than what most Najdorf players want (an unclear mess).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Hoppers
Junior Member
**
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 73
Location: York
Joined: 02/15/03
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #7 - 05/24/10 at 11:26:35
Post Tools

Further interesting details of this line can be found in the NIC Yearbook 94 forum, which is available in free .pdf at the new in chess website.
  

1, "You very rarely sacrifice pieces"&&2, "That's because I spend most of my time losing them instead"
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FrankieJay
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


USCF 2357

Posts: 35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 10/20/09
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #6 - 05/12/10 at 00:18:31
Post Tools
13. c3 indeed!  Very interesting.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1826
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #5 - 05/11/10 at 23:20:30
Post Tools
In my home analysis, I have 11.fxg5 Nd5 12. Ne4 Qb6 13. c3! Qxb2 14. Rb1 Qxa2 15. g6! fxg6 16. Bd3! Nf4 17. Nf6+ Kf7 18. Bxg6+!!+-, as well as 13...dxe5 14. g6! fxg6 15. Qg4! as leading to trouble for Black.
« Last Edit: 05/12/10 at 00:37:51 by TonyRo »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FrankieJay
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


USCF 2357

Posts: 35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 10/20/09
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #4 - 05/11/10 at 17:46:58
Post Tools
Yes, the more I look at this the more unpleasant I am finding black's position in both lines.  Very little winning chances and basically just trying to hold an endgame where white has all the chances.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Papageno
Senior Member
****
Offline


FM

Posts: 299
Location: Germany
Joined: 06/12/08
Gender: Male
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #3 - 05/11/10 at 17:00:13
Post Tools
When I considered playing this line as Black, I was not happy either about the line

8. e5 h6 9. Bh4 g5 10. fxg5 Nd5 11. Nxd5 exd5 12. exd6 Bxd6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. Qd4 Qe7+ 15. Be2 Be5 16. Qa4 Rb8 17. g6 Qb4+ 18. Qxb4 Rxb4 19. gxf7+ Kxf7 20. O-O+ Kg7 21. Bf2 Rxb2 22. Bd3 etc. as in Grasso, David(2131)-Ippolito, Dean(2455), Branchburg 2009. 

Black has lots of weakness, white plays a very pleasant endgame. Not exactly what I wanted to reach after having learnt 21 moves of opening theory.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FrankieJay
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


USCF 2357

Posts: 35
Location: Minnesota, USA
Joined: 10/20/09
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #2 - 05/11/10 at 14:34:13
Post Tools
Hmm... interesting.

I think the crucial line there might be:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Nc6 8. e5 h6 9. Bh4 g5 10. fxg5 Nd5 11. Nxd5 exd5 12. exd6 Bxd6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. Qd4 Qe7+ 15. Be2 Be5 16. Qa4 Rb8!?

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

Here both 17. Qxc6+ and 17. g6 are playable.  The question is whether either gives any advantage.

For example: 17. g6 allows Qb4+ 18. Qxb4 Rxb4 and somehow I doubt white has any advantage here, so 17. Qxc6+ seems crucial again.

17. Qxc6 Bd7 18. Qxd5 Rxb2 19. 0-0 hxg5 20. Bg3 Bxg3 21. hg3 Rxc2 22. Rae1 0-0 23. Bxa6 Be6 24. Qe5.  And the million dollar question.  Does white have enough to achieve serious winning chances?  Perhaps, especially because of the weak g5-pawn, though I think the most likely result is a draw.  Improvements?

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Papageno
Senior Member
****
Offline


FM

Posts: 299
Location: Germany
Joined: 06/12/08
Gender: Male
Re: Bg5 Classical Najdorf with 7...Nc6
Reply #1 - 05/11/10 at 11:05:56
Post Tools
After reading Experts vs. Sicilian (the Najdorf chapter was written by Luther) I was under the impression that the following lines give white nice play.

8. e5 h6 9. Bh4 g5 10. fxg5 Nd5 11. Nxd5 exd5 12. exd6 Qxd6 13. Qe2+ Be7 14. Nxc6 bxc6 15. Bg3 Qg6 16. Qe5 Rg8 17. gxh6 etc (Luther-Abreu Delgado, 2001)
or 
12... Bxd6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14. Qd4 Qe7+ 15. Be2 Be5 16. Qa4 Qd6 17. Bg3 Bd7 18. Qh4 Rb8 19. O-O Bxg3 20. hxg3 (Dworakowska-Areshchenko, 2005)

Are there newer developments? Does Black have a clear path to equality after 11. Nxd5 exd5 12. exd6?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo