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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is the King's Indian dead? (Read 18685 times)
TN
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #26 - 08/02/10 at 23:50:56
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To answer the original question: The King's Indian is alive and kicking more so than ever Cheesy

The 8...a6 variation feels better for White based on the Avrukh recommendation. Personally I think 6...c5 is Black's best chance at equality, since it's the one line where I haven't proven an advantage for White yet.
  

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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #25 - 08/02/10 at 15:19:49
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TopNotch wrote on 07/31/10 at 01:40:06:
Markovich wrote on 07/29/10 at 17:39:07:
TopNotch:  Thanks for that info.

'Nother question.  How much trouble and/or frustration do you encounter from the Exchange Variation?


It's a bit annoying as only lower rated players have employed it against me, and the games tend to drag on for sometime. Still I have managed to win all my games against this variation, simply by refusing draws and playing till the wheels fall off. Some weaker white players believe the exchange variation and easy route to a draw, but that's only true among players of similiar strength, and what usually happens in practise is that the weaker player, usually White, gets mercilessly ground down. Something similiar often happens in the Danish Gambit when once again Black, usually the stronger player, adopts Capa's line which leads to a roughly equal endgame where White often gets outplayed. 



Yeah, I take your point; I have won games on Black's side of that very line.
  

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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #24 - 08/01/10 at 07:26:08
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The "improved Gallagher" is 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.0-0 Nbd7 7.Nc3 e5 8.e4 a6!?. It may transpose to the Gallagher-Variation in some lines if Black plays ...exd4 soon.
  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #23 - 08/01/10 at 00:40:28
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Bibs wrote on 07/30/10 at 01:09:00:
If I may be permitted to step in there, exchange has been no problem.
Exchange is a variation that any kid player should spend a lot of early time on. And I did. Dark squares and d4. Consequently got a big score. 
Mind you, haven't played one post-grivas.

Main black kid quandaries:
1. Do I have the energy for Nc6 v classical? Do I want it v a weaker but rybka-loving youngster?
Nc6 is true KID stuff, used to as a kid, but now...?
2. Versus fianchetto - what? Improved Gallagher line, or into Grunfeld territory.



What are you referring to as "the improved Gallagher line" ? 

I have recently gotten into the KID as black because I have always enjoyed the rich positions from White's POV and found I enjoy equally being them as black. However I don't have much comfortability in the Fianchetto yet.
  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #22 - 07/31/10 at 16:35:42
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TopNotch wrote on 07/31/10 at 01:40:06:
[omething similiar often happens in the Danish Gambit when once again Black, usually the stronger player, adopts Capa's line which leads to a roughly equal endgame where White often gets outplayed.

Now this is a statement confirmed by statistical data. The line has been known as almost a forced draw since Ghizdavu-Sydor, Skopje 1972. Still White's score is horrible: 37%.
  

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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #21 - 07/31/10 at 07:42:33
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Many kid players in practice are not so strong tactically, the kid to me is a very strategical opening ... I consider myself tactically very good, but I deny to play the kid, because its positional play is so complex,
for me the  benoni (a small subvariation of the kid Smiley) is there it's at Smiley

TopNotch wrote on 07/31/10 at 01:40:06:
Markovich wrote on 07/29/10 at 17:39:07:
TopNotch:  Thanks for that info.

'Nother question.  How much trouble and/or frustration do you encounter from the Exchange Variation?


It's a bit annoying as only lower rated players have employed it against me, and the games tend to drag on for sometime. Still I have managed to win all my games against this variation, simply by refusing draws and playing till the wheels fall off. Some weaker white players believe the exchange variation and easy route to a draw, but that's only true among players of similiar strength, and what usually happens in practise is that the weaker player, usually White, gets mercilessly ground down. Something similiar often happens in the Danish Gambit when once again Black, usually the stronger player, adopts Capa's line which leads to a roughly equal endgame where White often gets outplayed. 

Equal doesn't neccessarily mean draw, but many players think so. Having said that, dull unambitious play by White is a fact of life in tournament chess, you simply have to make a mental adjustment when facing such an opponent and get on with the job. 

Many players think because KID players love a good hack, that its all they know how to do, but the stats tend to differ. Wink

Tops Smiley


  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #20 - 07/31/10 at 07:38:28
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just like markovich said, the kid is a religion.
You should really only play it if you can learn enough theory, because there are many different approaches and subvariations for white to attack the kid ... but that being said, the kid is not unsound, I would consider it the best opening against the closed systems, but only if someone knows how to play it, atm I think only Radjabov is able to do it Smiley
  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #19 - 07/31/10 at 03:00:36
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TopNotch wrote on 07/31/10 at 01:40:06:
Markovich wrote on 07/29/10 at 17:39:07:
TopNotch:  Thanks for that info.

'Nother question.  How much trouble and/or frustration do you encounter from the Exchange Variation?


It's a bit annoying as only lower rated players have employed it against me, and the games tend to drag on for sometime. Still I have managed to win all my games against this variation, simply by refusing draws and playing till the wheels fall off. Some weaker white players believe the exchange variation and easy route to a draw, but that's only true among players of similiar strength, and what usually happens in practise is that the weaker player, usually White, gets mercilessly ground down. Something similiar often happens in the Danish Gambit when once again Black, usually the stronger player, adopts Capa's line which leads to a roughly equal endgame where White often gets outplayed. 

Equal doesn't neccessarily mean draw, but many players think so. Having said that, dull unambitious play by White is a fact of life in tournament chess, you simply have to make a mental adjustment when facing such an opponent and get on with the job. 

Many players think because KID players love a good hack, that its all they know how to do, but the stats tend to differ. Wink

Tops Smiley



Largely, agree, but I am not annoyed at all, in fact rather chuffed at the prospect of a grind. I am just really happy when (weaker) white players play this. Cos:
1) I have avoided heavy theory and am in a chess game safely, ready to actually beat the lower rated through some Chess.
2) generally players less than, say, 2200 cannot play middlegames well without queens. 

See also:
d4 d6
c4 e5
de5 Smiley
...eventually..eventually...
0-1

  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #18 - 07/31/10 at 01:55:02
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TopNotch wrote on 07/31/10 at 01:40:06:
 
...dull unambitious play by White is a fact of life in tournament chess, you simply have to make a mental adjustment when facing such an opponent and get on with the job. 


So true.
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #17 - 07/31/10 at 01:40:06
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Markovich wrote on 07/29/10 at 17:39:07:
TopNotch:  Thanks for that info.

'Nother question.  How much trouble and/or frustration do you encounter from the Exchange Variation?


It's a bit annoying as only lower rated players have employed it against me, and the games tend to drag on for sometime. Still I have managed to win all my games against this variation, simply by refusing draws and playing till the wheels fall off. Some weaker white players believe the exchange variation and easy route to a draw, but that's only true among players of similiar strength, and what usually happens in practise is that the weaker player, usually White, gets mercilessly ground down. Something similiar often happens in the Danish Gambit when once again Black, usually the stronger player, adopts Capa's line which leads to a roughly equal endgame where White often gets outplayed. 

Equal doesn't neccessarily mean draw, but many players think so. Having said that, dull unambitious play by White is a fact of life in tournament chess, you simply have to make a mental adjustment when facing such an opponent and get on with the job. 

Many players think because KID players love a good hack, that its all they know how to do, but the stats tend to differ. Wink

Tops Smiley

  

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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #16 - 07/30/10 at 18:24:44
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With regards to #2 - The Panno is off your list to begin with?
  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #15 - 07/30/10 at 01:09:00
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If I may be permitted to step in there, exchange has been no problem.
Exchange is a variation that any kid player should spend a lot of early time on. And I did. Dark squares and d4. Consequently got a big score. 
Mind you, haven't played one post-grivas.

Main black kid quandaries:
1. Do I have the energy for Nc6 v classical? Do I want it v a weaker but rybka-loving youngster?
Nc6 is true KID stuff, used to as a kid, but now...?
2. Versus fianchetto - what? Improved Gallagher line, or into Grunfeld territory.
  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #14 - 07/29/10 at 17:39:07
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TopNotch:  Thanks for that info.

'Nother question.  How much trouble and/or frustration do you encounter from the Exchange Variation?
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #13 - 07/29/10 at 12:46:37
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TopNotch wrote on 07/29/10 at 03:53:12:
But seriously though, even when Black's attack is hopelessly unsound, otb even good White players have trouble coping with Black's perceived threats. Case in point the just concluded USJnr Championship, where Ray Robson completely screwed up the move order in a Classical KID and his opponent could have safely gobbled up the rook on a1 for very little, but fearing ghost he chickened out and duly received the appropriate punishment.


Zhao (Robson's opponent) had a different explanation:

Quote:
Zhao said he was aware that Melekhina was also employing the King’s Indian, but wanted to deviate from Krush’s response because he said he felt following her move-for-move would be unethical.

“If I’d won, it would be like Irina’s win,” Zhao said.

http://saintlouischessclub.org/news/2010-07-18/krushing-king%E2%80%99s-indian
  
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Re: Is the King's Indian dead?
Reply #12 - 07/29/10 at 04:06:44
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I was referring just to the branching point of a specific position, not some theoretical improvement that occurs way later.

Theory moves quickly enough that of course Khalifman's recommendations (and everybody else's) end up getting overturned eventually. His mainline Bayonet KID was outdated by the time the book hit the shelves, which highlights the point.

Any student that keeps track of theory doesn't just rely on one source, anyway. They develop their own, and go from there.
  

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