Dangerous OTB against the unwary.

Paper tiger against the prepared, possibly even landing white in hot water if the b4 sacrifices are in mind.

Side-note to that list I compiled: Some of the things I listed under "everything else needs improvements" received a lot of work from me, and could also be recommended. ie: Fischer's Defense could actually be allowed, and an edge realistically played for (no hoping and wishing).

It's kind of a pity that those finds may get left out of "Play 1.Nf3!" for space reasons. Maybe it could be reserved for an update. Who knows.

Glenn Snow wrote on 09/05/11 at 16:34:52:


You got it, 5. d4 is the move.

Rubenstein Variation isn't the problem with 5. cxd5 though. The problem is if black just leaves the Nd5 where it is. Currently white can aspire to an edge in the Rubenstein, so if he wants to see it he should get it by the 1. c4/2. g3 move order when the Nd5 will be forced to retreat due to the Nc3/Bg2 hitting the Nd5 (in the move order above the Nf3 blocks the Bg2, so black isn't compelled to play ...Nc7).

It isn't covered in Marin's work either. But wouldn't you rather want to play 5. dxc5 dxc5 6. Qxd8 if you are going to take on c5? (Edited, I missed the move order - The idea is of course to disturb Black before he gets castled).

sorry, it doesn't work at all. This is indeed KID territory. In the positions I was thinking of, White and Black have played Nc3 and Nc6, respectively. This covers the check on a5 by Black, which I guess I would play if White took on c5 without playing Nc3.

Tolotos wrote on 02/11/11 at 13:49:43:


Interesting idea with 12 ...Nb6!? I have to have a closer look at it when I have a board available.

Anyway, the problem with your first line, playing ...d6 first, is that after 7.a3 a5, White hasn't had to play Rb1. This tempo can White use to his advantage. Most authors have concluded the same thing. I can't remember Marin's analysis on top of my head, but I think that Kosten also mentions that White should give up the queenside break and focus on the b5-square.

[quote author=72717B7D1C0 link=1283034319/12#12 date=1284159400][quote]no d5-break?

1. c4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 e5 4. Bg2 g6 5. Nf3 Bg7 6. O-O Nge7 7. d3 d6 8. a3 O-O 9. Rb1 a5 10. Ne1 Be6 11. Nc2 d5 [/quote]


I was talking about positions where White has adopted a Botvinnik set-up, to the extent of having a pawn on e4 as well as on c4.

But looking at this makes me realise how ignorant I am about move orders and the status of certain variations -- can anyone help? In the sequence of moves battleangel gives quoted above, the 'Botvinnik' (the B. setup for White, but also indeed for Black -- a double Botvinnik) could be reached via say 5 d3 Bg7 6 e4. But White seems to adopt this plan only comparatively rarely. Why is this, given that in the Closed Symmetrical, where White has adopted a B. setup before ...e5 Black isn't likely to play that move in preference to keeping the diagonal for the Bg7 open? Does the answer lie in move orders, or in the fact that Black hasn't committed his king's knight and so can meet Botvinnik with Botvinnik? I'm feeling very thick! ...
[/quote]

I am not sure about the answer, but Marin recommends skipping the move d3, and suggest sending the king's knight towards d5 immediately, e.g.
[b]1.c4 c5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2 g6 4.Nc3 Bg7 5.Nf3 e5 6.0-0 Nge7 7.a3 0-0 8.Rb1 a5[/b] and here [b]9.Ne1![/b]

This move order is not covered in any of the other books I have (The Dynamic English, Beating the Flank Openings, Starting Out: English, Symmetrical English x2). It seems like a pretty clever one, which avoids early d5- and b5-breaks by Black. The resulting position seems a bit worse for Black than the "normal" case, after [b]9.d3 d6[/b], because in those, Black can play ...Be6 and ...d5 when White plays Ne1.

My enthusiasm for that particular variation has since waned for that particular variation due to a black improvement, but it's still notable anyway. It's in the thread titled "An Attacking Line Against the Hedgehog".

Thanks kylemeister. I tend to forget things these days -- I have a feeling I've been here before ... Too much chess stuff too late at night, probably!