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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C34-C39: KGA repertoire & problem in Fischer line (Read 19720 times)
MNb
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #9 - 01/26/11 at 09:40:56
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If I would meet 5.h4 I would start to play for an advantage, beginning with Nf6 6.Nc3 Be7 threatening 7...Nxe4.
But I admit that that was not what I had intended when playing 3...d6.
  

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Jonathan Tait
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #8 - 01/26/11 at 08:37:58
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Schwebbz wrote on 01/25/11 at 22:03:54:
Never liked 5.d4 myself, even though it's considered the main line by no less an authority than Gallagher. Try hitting it with 5.h4 (preventing 5...g5) or maybe even 5.b3, covering the space black leaves behind.


5 h4 leads to interesting positions, yes. There's no advantage for White, but if you want a theoretical opening advantage you shouldn't be playing the King's Gambit at all Wink. The main plus point of 5 h4 is that the opponent is prevented from playing as intended and that's always a good thing.
  

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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #7 - 01/26/11 at 01:21:16
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walkingterrapin wrote on 01/25/11 at 18:28:17:
Try the Hanstein gambit against the pesky fischer defense. 
1. e4 e5 2. f4 ef 3. Nf3 d6 4. Bc4 h6 5. d4 g5 6. 0-0

This is holding on fine for white.  Just be aware that c3 is not always the best plan and you will have to play g3 and get his pawns moving on your castled king. 

Now this is what I call bad advise.
1) White's g2-g3 should not be answered with ...g4 and ...f3. Black should play ...Bc8-h3.

2) After 6...Bg7 (Nc6 might even be more precise) White has a limited choice:
a) 7.c3 Nc6 8.g3 Bh3 at least =+, Hakkola-Lehtinen, corr 1988. White won, but 12...Rhe8 is quite an improvement. Even better might be Nokes-Sarapu, NZDch 1979.
b) 7.Nc3 Be6 Semprun-Munoyerro, corr 1981. Also good is 7.Nc3 Nc6 8.Nd5 Nge7 Zila-Gyimesi, HUNchT 1994.
c) 7.g3 Bh3 8.Rf2 Nc6 could be playable, Kortchnoi-Malich, IBM Amsterdam 1972, though a draw is not a very good sign given the difference in strength.
So the question is: what does White do after 7.g3 Nc6 ? I don't see anything but 8.c3 and then Bh3 is line a) again.

3) Worst thing is that White can play in the spirit of the Hanstein Gambit and prevent the ...Bh3 idea with the simple 4.d4 g5 5.Nc3 idea 6.g3. This promises full compensation. Just check other KG-threads in this section.
So there is no need to look at artificial stuff like 4.Bc4 h6 5.h4 or 5.b3.
Against the Becker White can play the same: 3...h6 4.d4 g5 5.Nc3 h6 6.g3.
  

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Schwebbz
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #6 - 01/25/11 at 22:03:54
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Never liked 5.d4 myself, even though it's considered the main line by no less an authority than Gallagher. Try hitting it with 5.h4 (preventing 5...g5) or maybe even 5.b3, covering the space black leaves behind.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #5 - 01/25/11 at 18:28:17
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Try the Hanstein gambit against the pesky fischer defense. 
1. e4 e5 2. f4 ef 3. Nf3 d6 4. Bc4 h6 5. d4 g5 6. 0-0

This is holding on fine for white.  Just be aware that c3 is not always the best plan and you will have to play g3 and get his pawns moving on your castled king.
  
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #4 - 11/01/10 at 18:35:01
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Well perhaps it's a matter of taste...

I don't think 9. ... Nd7 changes anything concerning the evaluation of the position. After 10. Nf3 Nf6 11.Nc3 I still like white, whose option also include a quick d5 push or castling long.

You might call the position equal, but I would rather be white here.  Smiley

Having said that in the original line with 9. ... Bd6 10.Nf3 Nf4 11.Nc3!? is also a nice option e.g. 11. ... 0-0 12.Qd2 Re8 13.0-0-0 I like queenside castling here!

In contrast I took a quick look at the 5.d4 line and it seemed to me that black has less problems there.
  
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #3 - 11/01/10 at 17:02:21
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Sorry, no advantage here. If i remember corectly Perelsteyn gives 9...Nd7 as "=". Maybe you should check in NCO's line where 5.d4 is gives as += but i also don't think it as a problem for Black
  
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #2 - 11/01/10 at 12:53:18
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I am thankful for all suggestions of black defences, if I want to build a repertoire I should consider everything black could throw at me!  Wink

I don't know about Perelshtein's recommendation, but after some research 1.e4 e5 2.f4 ef4: 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Ne4 5.d3 Ng5 6.Bf4: Ne6 (6. ... Nf3:+ 7.Qf3: d6 8.Qg3! += Glazkov) 7.Be3! like in Iuldachev-Vladimirov should give white a slight edge in my opinion. This is a typical KG position where white has the extra central pawn and the half open f-file.

The game continued 7. ... d6 8.d4 de5: 9.Ne5: Bd6 10.Nf3 Nf4 (10. ... 0-0 11.Bc4) 11.Qd2 Nd5 12.Bc4 Ne3: 13.Qe3:+ Qe7 14.Qe7: Ke7: 15.0-0 += according to Bangiev, I agree.

In this type of position white should always be a bit better if black doesn't achieve anything special.

Do you disagree?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: King's gambit repertoire & problem in Fischer line
Reply #1 - 11/01/10 at 11:14:33
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Sorry for not answering to your question but is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Ne4! (as Perelsteyn recommends in chess.com) bad for Black? As i see it now White has no route for an advantage and it is much easier and simple defence for Black to learn and play.
  
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C34-C39: KGA repertoire & problem in Fischer line
11/01/10 at 01:14:31
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I see the King's Gambit is getting more popular here again and I took a new look at my old favorite.  Roll Eyes

My idea was if it was possible to construct a repertoire with the King's Knight Gambit 1.e4 e5 2.f4 ef4: 3.Nf3.

Of course I have no illusions that white can achieve an advantage against best play, though my aim would be to get theoretical equality with white in every variation, when practical chances are surely with white.

Against 3. ... g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 I think Stefan Buecker's recommendations look quite promising for white in that respect, 3. ... g5 was the reason why I gave up the King's Gambit some years ago.

The Modern Variation 3. ... d5 was never a theoretical problem for white in my view, perhaps I should have a very close look at TJ's new idea here in the forum as I don't think 6.Bd5: promises white anything.

The 'lesser variations' like the Schallopp 3. ... Nf6 4.e5 and Cunningham 3. ... Be7 4.Bc4 could offer white realistic chances for an advantage.

After 3. ... Ne7 I think play transposes to the Modern after 4.Bc4.

What remains are the Becker variation 3. ... h6 and the Fischer defence 3. ... d6.
Any suggestions against the Becker?
In the past I used to play 4.b3!? although I'm not sure if it holds up theoretically.

It seems a lot of developments have been going on in the variations like 3. ... d6 4.d4 g5 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.g3!?
but I am not sure if I trust them completely. It seems to me white has good practical compensation, though it might be insufficient against a good defender or a well prepared opponent.
Or am I wrong?  Sad

When I played the KG I went 3. ... d6 4.d4 g5 5.h4 g4 6.Ng1, though I noticed a problem I wasn't able to solve yet:

6. ... f5! 7.Nc3 fe4:! 8.Bf4: (7.Bf4: fe4: 8.Nc3 is a transposition) d5! (8. ... Nf6 9.d5! with a nice attacking position)
This has been played by Leisebeim in corr chess, but otherwise it has been seen only seldom.

But in my view the move is very logical: black builds a massive center and given some more time his position will be impenetrable and clearly better (white did not show enough compensation after 8. ... Nf6 9.Qd2?! d5, which is black's idea).
So white has to act very quickly:
8. ... d5 9.Be5! Nf6 10.Nd5: Qd5: 11.Bf6: Bb4+! (the point, after 11. ... Rg8 12.Ne2 Bd6 13.Qd2 white consolidates and is at least equal) 12.c3 0-0 13.Bg5 Bd6.

The black structure is messed up, but he has quite a nice lead in development and it is unsure where the white king can hide.
What do you think of this position? The computer likes black here.
« Last Edit: 07/23/11 at 01:45:28 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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