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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C02: French Advance - solid lines for Black? (Read 73363 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #45 - 07/08/11 at 22:24:36
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 07/08/11 at 22:04:51:
There's a common tactic that makes Bb5 bad in many lines: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Bb5? Nxe5

Also, the light squared B has much more to do on the K-side than the Q-side. Is it really worthwhile to offer to trade it off when Black's weakest piece is almost always the light squared Bishop?


OrangeCounty meant that he played ...Qb6 and ...Bd7, intending ...Bb5, as Black.  You know, something like 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Bd3 cd 7.cd?! Bb5!.  I think 7.Nxd4 must be stronger there, but yes, this is probably a solid line for Black.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #44 - 07/08/11 at 22:04:51
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There's a common tactic that makes Bb5 bad in many lines: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Bb5? Nxe5

Also, the light squared B has much more to do on the K-side than the Q-side. Is it really worthwhile to offer to trade it off when Black's weakest piece is almost always the light squared Bishop?
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #43 - 07/08/11 at 18:29:45
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MNb wrote on 02/03/11 at 15:59:31:
Perhaps you should leave the Queen's Knight on b8 and prefer 3...c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 idea Bb5. I am not aware of pyrotechnics in this line. Having a preference for some mad hacking myself this is an important reason not to play 3.e5.


I've played the Bb5 idea a lot in rapid and blitz games with very impressive results (usually by the move order 1 e4 c5 2 Nf3 e6 3 c3 d5 4 e5 Bd7 5 d4 Qb6, since I generally open 1 e4 c5), but I've never done any serious work on the variation.  Maybe I ought to if it's being suggested by a genuinely strong player.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #42 - 06/02/11 at 09:09:13
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Don't normally attack down the g file though - just o-o/Bg7/f6 etc and then a lot of pressure on d4, exchange sacs on f3 etc. Tons of fun.

More normal via 5.. Qb6 6 Be2 Nh6 etc, although it seems you maybe save half a tempo here on Qd8 x f6 rather than having it on b6 already.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #41 - 06/02/11 at 00:27:03
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You won't hear me complain about 5...Nh6 as I won a nice game with it. It is in another thread; search on Marconi.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #40 - 06/01/11 at 22:56:38
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What's the general opinion of the 5. ... Nh6 line, as recommended in one chapter of the Dangerous Weapons: French book? (1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Nh6)

Besides that book, I know a master who recommends this line, so the last time I faced the Advance in a tournament game a couple of weeks ago, I tried it out. My opponent played 6. Bxh6 gxh6, which seemed like it would give me an open avenue for attack, if he'd castled king side (which he didn't). My opponent obviously didn't know anything about the French - the game started 1. d4 e6 2. e4, so he doesn't face the French often as a 1. d4 player. So I ended up being more comfortable with the position and outplaying him for a relatively easy win, which really didn't tell me much about the line.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #39 - 05/01/11 at 11:28:58
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dom wrote on 05/01/11 at 10:17:15:
15...Nc4 is not a valid move in this variation (knight is on d7 square) ... and 13...Qa6 gives White one potential fork with b5


Sorry. Instead of 11...Ne7 I read 11...Be7, and I assumed that 12...Nc6 meant 12...Nb6. Well, how is White supposed to play after 11...Be7? 12.Rc1 Nb6 (which I assumed to be the Nisipeanu game) seems to be OK for Black.

After 11...Ne7 12.Rc1 Nc6 13.Ne2 Qb5 14.0-0, why not 14...Be7? 15.Nc3 Qb6 16.Qd3 a6 followed by ...0-0, ...Rfc8 seems to be pretty equal.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #38 - 05/01/11 at 10:17:15
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huibui wrote on 04/30/11 at 16:23:37:
In the position after 15.Ne1 (!), why is Black worse after 15...Nc4? Also, I quite like 13...Qa6, to avoid being hit by Nc3 later. Black continues with ...Nc4, ...Nh6 etc.


15...Nc4 is not a valid move in this variation (knight is on d7 square) ... and 13...Qa6 gives White one potential fork with b5
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #37 - 04/30/11 at 16:23:37
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dom wrote on 04/30/11 at 11:39:48:
Plan for Black with Nd7 is to move this knight to c4...hence Qc4 seems to be not a precise move

9...Nd7 10.Nc3 Qc4 11.Bb2 Ne7 (11...a5 12.Qa4) 12.Rc1 Nc6 13.Ne2 Qb5 14.oo a6 15.Ne1! Nisipeanu-Ionescu,Calimanesti 1999 (Sevshnikov)

10...Qa6 11.Bd2 (mo need here to play Na4 because Nb6 is easy put off by b5) Qd3 (11...Ne7?! 12.a4 Sveshnikov-Alavkin,Cheliabinsk 2005 (Sveshnikov)) 12.Ne2 followed by oo and Nf4 giving White small advantage

10...Qc6 (most obvious way to engineer Black plan) 11.Na4! (Torre-Bagamasbad,Greenhills 1997 (Jovicic) ; to forbid Nb6 (Eingorn)) and now 11...a5!?  (Sveshnikov-Grosar,Slovenie 2003) 12.Bd2 axb4 13.axb4 Qa6 14.Bc3 +=



I agree with your evaluation of 10...Qc6 and 10...Qa6 as being slightly better for White (although I would prefer 11.b5 after the latter), however, the Nisipeanu game doesn't change my opinion about 10...Qc4 solving Black's problems.

In the position after 15.Ne1 (!), why is Black worse after 15...Nc4? Also, I quite like 13...Qa6, to avoid being hit by Nc3 later. Black continues with ...Nc4, ...Nh6 etc.

13.Nd2 is probably a bit more testing, but after 13...Qd3 14.Na4 Nd7 15.Rc7 Rb8, although Black seems to be under pressure, it is hard to find anything convincing for White.

The other line after 10...Qc4, 11.Ne2, is probably well met by 11...Ne7, and while White's position may be a little easier to play, I find it hard to believe that Black is worse objectively.

Your argument, that 10...Qc4 is illogical because c4 is the square for the knight misses the fact that Qc4 avoids the Na4-stuff (because of 11.Na4 a5!) as well as the b5-push, and after White has lost some time of kicking it away Black can put his knight on c4 anyway.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #36 - 04/30/11 at 11:39:48
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huibui wrote on 04/29/11 at 08:38:35:
9...Nd7, after 10.Nc3 Qc4 and some more accurate moves Black seems to be OK. Probably 9...Nc6 and 9...Ne7 are also playable, but maybe a little more pleasant for White.


Plan for Black with Nd7 is to move this knight to c4...hence Qc4 seems to be not a precise move

9...Nd7 10.Nc3 Qc4 11.Bb2 Ne7 (11...a5 12.Qa4) 12.Rc1 Nc6 13.Ne2 Qb5 14.oo a6 15.Ne1! Nisipeanu-Ionescu,Calimanesti 1999 (Sevshnikov)

10...Qa6 11.Bd2 (mo need here to play Na4 because Nb6 is easy put off by b5) Qd3 (11...Ne7?! 12.a4 Sveshnikov-Alavkin,Cheliabinsk 2005 (Sveshnikov)) 12.Ne2 followed by oo and Nf4 giving White small advantage

10...Qc6 (most obvious way to engineer Black plan) 11.Na4! (Torre-Bagamasbad,Greenhills 1997 (Jovicic) ; to forbid Nb6 (Eingorn)) and now 11...a5!?  (Sveshnikov-Grosar,Slovenie 2003) 12.Bd2 axb4 13.axb4 Qa6 14.Bc3 +=
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #35 - 04/29/11 at 10:30:40
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huibui wrote on 04/29/11 at 08:38:35:
Do you know of any improvements for White in this line?


No, I only play the French Advance as Black.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #34 - 04/29/11 at 08:38:35
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MNb wrote on 04/28/11 at 21:03:46:
Why don't you begin then with improving on a few GM games?


Well, for starters, 8.dxc4 seems to equalize pretty easily.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Be2 Bb5 7.c4 Bxc4 8.Bxc4 dxc4 9.d5 exd5 10.Qxd5 Ne7 11.Qxc4 (11.Qe4 Qc6 12.Qxc4 Qa6 transposes to 11.Dxc4 Da6) 11...Qa6 (11...Qb4+ 12.Qxb4 cxb4 13.0-0 Nbc6= is also possible) 12.Na3 Qxc4 13.Nxc4 Nf5=

Do you know of any improvements for White in this line?

In my opinion more challenging is 6.a3, after 6...Bb5 7.c4 is probably equal again (Black plays like in the line above, but uses the a3-move by putting his Queen on b3 on move 9), but after 7.b4 White has the usual queenside space advantage, which can become rather annoying.

The best line I could find for Black is

(After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.a3 Bb5 7.b4 (7.c4 Bxc4 8.Bxc4 dxc4 9.d5 Qb3=) 7...cxd4 8.Bxb5+ Qxb5 9.cxd4)

9...Nd7, after 10.Nc3 Qc4 and some more accurate moves Black seems to be OK. Probably 9...Nc6 and 9...Ne7 are also playable, but maybe a little more pleasant for White.
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #33 - 04/28/11 at 21:03:46
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cynima wrote on 04/28/11 at 18:04:42:
I know that is the general opinion, but I dont think this is true
Maybe we can analyse some lines?
Would be great and at least I would learn a lot!


Why don't you begin then with improving on a few GM games?

Adams,M (2660) - Illescas Cordoba,M (2590) [C02]
Las Palmas Las Palmas (2), 1994

1.e4 c5 2.c3 e6 3.d4 d5 4.e5 Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Be2 Bb5 7.c4 Bxc4 8.Bxc4 Qb4+ 9.Nbd2 dxc4 10.0-0 Nc6 11.dxc5 Bxc5 12.a3 Qb5 13.Ne4 Nge7 14.Be3 Rd8 15.Qe2 Bxe3 16.Nd6+ Rxd6 17.exd6 Bxf2+ 18.Rxf2 Nf5 19.Rd1 Qc5 20.Ng5 0-0 21.d7 Nd8 22.Ne4 Qc7 23.Kh1 Nc6 24.Qg4 Qe5 25.Re1 Rd8 26.Qd1 h6 27.g4 Nfd4 28.Nf6+ Qxf6 29.Rxf6 gxf6 30.Qc1 Kg7 31.Re3 Ne7 32.Rh3 Ng8 33.Qxc4 Rxd7 34.Qc8 Rd5 35.Qxb7 Ne2 36.Rf3 a5 37.Kg2 h5 38.gxh5 Nh6 39.Kf2 Re5 40.h3 Nd4 41.Rg3+ Kh7 42.Rd3 1-0

Illescas Cordoba,M (2595) - Beljavsky,A (2650) [C02]
Madrid Madrid (9), 1995

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Qb6 5.Nf3 Bd7 6.Be2 Bb5 7.c4 Bxc4 8.Bxc4 Qb4+ 9.Nbd2 dxc4 10.a3 Qb5 11.0-0 Ne7 12.Ne4 Nd5 13.dxc5 Nd7 14.Nd6+ Bxd6 15.cxd6 0-0 16.Re1 c3 17.bxc3 Nxc3 18.Qd2 Rfc8 19.Bb2 Nd5 20.Re4 Nc5 21.Rg4 h5 22.Rh4 Qd3 23.Qg5 Qf5 24.Qxf5 exf5 25.Rd1 Nb6 26.Rxh5 Ne6 27.Nd4 Na4 28.Ba1 g6 29.Nxe6 gxh5 30.Nc7 Nc5 31.Nxa8 Rxa8 32.Bd4 Ne6 33.f3 Kf8 34.Bf2 Ke8 35.d7+ Kd8 36.Bh4+ Kc7 37.Be7 b5 38.h4 a5 39.g4 fxg4 40.fxg4 b4 41.axb4 axb4 42.Bxb4 Ra4 43.Be7 Rxg4+ 44.Kf2 Rg8 45.Kf3 Ra8 46.Rd2 Rg8 47.Bf6 Ra8 48.Rd3 Rb8 49.Rd6 Rb3+ 50.Kf2 Nd8 51.Rd2 1-0
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #32 - 04/28/11 at 20:07:55
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cynima wrote on 04/28/11 at 18:04:42:
I know that is the general opinion, but I dont think this is true


The c4-lines don't seem to lead to much of a white advantage, but maybe the a3+b4 plans are more critical?
  
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Re: French Advance - solid lines for Black?
Reply #31 - 04/28/11 at 18:04:42
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/28/11 at 17:13:43:
That's the Wade variation, cynima. It had a resurgence of popularity in the late 1980s when White found several ways to gain an advantage. One of White's critical ideas is a timely c4!

Black's attempt to get rid of the light-squared bishop even at the cost of several tempi makes sense, but it just doesnt' quite work out for Black against best play.


I know that is the general opinion, but I dont think this is true
Maybe we can analyse some lines?
Would be great and at least I would learn a lot!
  
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