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Normal Topic C03: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch (Read 6471 times)
MartinC
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Re: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch
Reply #6 - 06/28/11 at 12:03:58
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Fun Smiley Astonishing to see such strong players using it actually. It unsurprisingly evades Psakhis. 

Just checked my database of Twics and there's a Kuzmin - Kullgin game from 2007 with 4 Ngf3 Be7 which also seems perfectly rational - 5 Bb5+ Nd7 6 Bd3 de 7 Nxe4 Nf5 etc).

Mind, I have this thing for 3.. Na6 simply because no one seems to have played it Smiley
  
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JamesH
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Re: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch
Reply #5 - 06/27/11 at 14:32:44
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Vass wrote on 06/27/11 at 13:33:04:
Imho, James's 7.Be2!? can well be met by 7. ... Bd6 8. O-O O-O 9. c4 Qf6 as in Dragoljub M Ciric (SRB) 2277 - Rudolf Maric (YUG) 2450 1/2-1/2, Kraljevo (Yugoslavia), 1967.
While in the main line 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nh6 4. Ngf3 Nc6 5. c3 f5 6. exd5 exd5 7. Bb5, black is not necessary to play 7. .... Nf7 immediately. A good try can be 7. ... Bd6 (a similar idea) 8. O-O O-O and now if 9.c4 as in Ray Tischbierek (GER) 2450 - Thomas Paehtz (GER) 2390, 1/2-1/2, Rostock (Germany) 1984 black can play 9. ... Bd7!?
While 9.Re1 as in Milan Skoko (SRB) 2257 - Zarko Petrovic  (SRB) 2133, 1/2-1/2, Tivat (Yugoslavia) 1995 can be opposed with 9 .... Re8, thus not in haste to move the knight on h6 which can do a good job even on g4 for example.
All in all, it seems 3 .... Nh6 can be a good surprise weapon for black in Tarrash French, at least on a club level.  Wink


I gave ...Nf7 because that was the move given by slug house originally, I agree that this may be a good suprise weapon although I have a feeling this c4 idea in the correct position should ensure an advantage for white.
  
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Re: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch
Reply #4 - 06/27/11 at 13:33:04
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Imho, James's 7.Be2!? can well be met by 7. ... Bd6 8. O-O O-O 9. c4 Qf6 as in Dragoljub M Ciric (SRB) 2277 - Rudolf Maric (YUG) 2450 1/2-1/2, Kraljevo (Yugoslavia), 1967.
While in the main line 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nh6 4. Ngf3 Nc6 5. c3 f5 6. exd5 exd5 7. Bb5, black is not necessary to play 7. .... Nf7 immediately. A good try can be 7. ... Bd6 (a similar idea) 8. O-O O-O and now if 9.c4 as in Ray Tischbierek (GER) 2450 - Thomas Paehtz (GER) 2390, 1/2-1/2, Rostock (Germany) 1984 black can play 9. ... Bd7!?
While 9.Re1 as in Milan Skoko (SRB) 2257 - Zarko Petrovic  (SRB) 2133, 1/2-1/2, Tivat (Yugoslavia) 1995 can be opposed with 9 .... Re8, thus not in haste to move the knight on h6 which can do a good job even on g4 for example.
All in all, it seems 3 .... Nh6 can be a good surprise weapon for black in Tarrash French, at least on a club level.  Wink
  
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Re: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch
Reply #3 - 06/26/11 at 09:48:49
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slughouse wrote on 06/26/11 at 01:44:11:
While I'm not sure that line is so bad for black, how about the natural 9...Be6 (after c4)? The d2 knight is quite misplaced in these types of positions. After 10.Qb3 Qd7!? (Rb8, b6 or a6!? also possible) 11.Qxb7 Rb8 12.Qa6 0-0 Black has good compensation and can think about playing ...g5 later on. 

If instead 10.Re1 then Qd7 seems quite satisfactory for black.


yeah this does some to be equal, this made me think that if white had the bishop on b5 then if ...Be6 white can play Re1 and also he may have the idea of Bxc6 followed by c5 with some sort of bind in the center, therefore:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nh6 4.Ngf3 Nc6 5.c3 f5 6.exd5 exd5 7.Bb5! Nf7 8.0-0 Be7 9.c4!? 0-0 (9...Be6?? 10.Re1 Qd7 11.Qe2 +-) 10.cxd5 transposing to the line given in my other comment, maybe white can improve with 10.Qa4 hitting c6, if black defends with 10...Qd6 11.cxd5! and white has the tempo Qa4 which may be useful.
  
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slughouse
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Re: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch
Reply #2 - 06/26/11 at 01:44:11
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While I'm not sure that line is so bad for black, how about the natural 9...Be6 (after c4)? The d2 knight is quite misplaced in these types of positions. After 10.Qb3 Qd7!? (Rb8, b6 or a6!? also possible) 11.Qxb7 Rb8 12.Qa6 0-0 Black has good compensation and can think about playing ...g5 later on. 

If instead 10.Re1 then Qd7 seems quite satisfactory for black.
  
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Re: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch
Reply #1 - 06/25/11 at 11:08:02
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It seems that black can play anything on the 3rd move against the tarrasch!

In the exchange variation maybe white can argue the Nd2 is good after Bd3 and Nf1 -e3 or g3, but I havent done any analysis of this..

Black is very flexible in the mainline black can aim for some  kingside attack ideas with ...g5 , or ...f4, although this may only happen if white plays to slowly (i think Smiley ) another idea could be Nd6-e4.

Despite saying this Im sure that white must have an edge: 

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nh6 4.Ngf3 Nc6 5.c3 f5 6.exd5 exd5 7.Be2!? Nf7 8.0-0 Be7 9.c4!?  this must be the principled variation as white would like to open the position to highlight the slowness of blacks opening play, this c4 also opens up the light squares which black is quite weak on. 9...0-0 10.cxd5 Qxd5 (10...Nb4!?) 11.Bc4 Qd6 12.Bb3! clearing c4 for the knight, and offering d4 12...Nxd4!? 13.Nc4 Nxf3+ 14.Qxf3 Qf6 15.Bd2  with a nice initiative for white.

I imagine there are some floors with this analysis so feel free to correct it or find an improvement.
  
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slughouse
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C03: 3...Nh6 in Tarrasch
06/25/11 at 10:06:14
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Today I was wondering about the line

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nh6!?/?!

Obviously not on the cutting edge of theory, but a further 'insult' to the Tarrasch French (...h6, ...a6) and one that isn't so easy to refute (or maybe I'm wrong).

4.e5 is just a good Advance variation for black. 4...c5 or 4...Nf5 both look fine.

4.exd5 exd5 is a favourable Exchange for black. Both knights are misplaced, but the h6 N is coming to f5.

4.Bd3 c5 5.dxc5 Bxc5 6.Nb3 dxe4 7.Nxc5 exd3 8.Nxd3 Nf5=

4.c3 Be7 5.Ngf3 0-0 6.Bd3 c5 is complex.

Which leaves the obvious 4.Ngf3. After 4...Nc6!? (Ok this could be a Guimard French but 3...Nh6 has shock value Tongue) there are the following variations:

5.e5 Nf5 6.c3 Be7 and ...f6
5.Bb5 a6 6.Bxc6+ bxc6 7.0-0 (7.Ne5 f6!) f6!? with unclear play.

5.c3 ('main line') f5!? (really!) 6.exd5 exd5 7.Bb5 Nf7. The f7 knight does a good job of protecting e5, and white must prove his advantage.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: 07/21/11 at 17:01:14 by dom »  
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