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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Spanish repertoire (Read 375011 times)
PatzerNoster
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #480 - 01/12/16 at 06:44:38
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If it is a repertoire for OTB players, we should look at the most frequently played moves.

In my DB, after 6.Qe2 d5 7.Nf6: gf6: 8.0-0 Bg7 is the main move by far, although 9.Nd4 looks strong.
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #479 - 01/12/16 at 00:03:06
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Is the repertoire for Corr. players or 2200+ OTB players?
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #478 - 01/11/16 at 20:52:15
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Quote:
I like Stefan's 16. Rf2! Should we move on to the next line now?

It's a small plus. Whether it would satisfy a Corr player is another question...
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #477 - 01/11/16 at 16:22:13
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I like Stefan's 16. Rf2! Should we move on to the next line now?
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #476 - 01/11/16 at 15:08:39
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Hello.

Stefan Buecker wrote on 01/11/16 at 11:19:57:
In CbT's new sideline (just posted!) 15. Rb1 Bc5+ 16. Kh1 e3 17. Bb5 Rhe8 18. Be2 Rad8 19.g3 Nd4 (19...d4 20.Rd1) 20.Bd3 e2 21.Re1 Bb4 22.Bf4 c5 23.Kg2, Black has lots of possibilities, and I guess one of these must be good enough for a draw. More importantly, it is a complicated mess, and the risks for White in an OTB game would be about as big as for Black.

My recommendation would be 16.Rf2!, e.g. Rad8 17.Bg4 Nb4 18.Kf1 Bxf2 19.Kxf2 Nd3+ 20.Ke3. Black has a small numerical advantage, but over the board I'd prefer White - it is simply easier to play, often White regains a pawn and can then try to win with 2 pieces vs R + P.

Yes. This seems nice and fairly practical. The h1 square is not fantastic for the king.


I thought I would post something on 6...Qe7. One realisation on this is that 7.0-0 d5 (positionally forced) 8.Nxf6+ gxf6 (positionally forced) 9.d4 just transposes to our 6...d5 line so basically the gods of practicality seem to be smiling at white. Alternatives also seem decent of course:


Have a nice day.

Edit fixed a disappeared + in the pgn
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #475 - 01/11/16 at 11:19:57
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The treatment suggested by Confused_by_theory looks promising. 

Quote:
Hi,

the 6. Qe2 and 8. 0-0 line seems to be pretty decent and will surprise a lot of opponents, however, there is one line not mentioned that probably leads to a draw:


In CbT's new sideline (just posted!) 15. Rb1 Bc5+ 16. Kh1 e3 17. Bb5 Rhe8 18. Be2 Rad8 19.g3 Nd4 (19...d4 20.Rd1) 20.Bd3 e2 21.Re1 Bb4 22.Bf4 c5 23.Kg2, Black has lots of possibilities, and I guess one of these must be good enough for a draw. More importantly, it is a complicated mess, and the risks for White in an OTB game would be about as big as for Black. 

My recommendation would be 16.Rf2!, e.g. Rad8 17.Bg4 Nb4 18.Kf1 Bxf2 19.Kxf2 Nd3+ 20.Ke3. Black has a small numerical advantage, but over the board I'd prefer White - it is simply easier to play, often White regains a pawn and can then try to win with 2 pieces vs R + P. 
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #474 - 01/11/16 at 10:46:06
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Hello.

Have now looked some at 13...Nxd4 and can say that white ends up in various slightly better endgames. Play after 13...Nxd4 is basically not forcing, even if some moves in each given continuation of course are. Some lines:


Winning chances etc. can of course be discussed (ad infinitum - if I know anything about the chesspub forum) but the relevance for this seems vague considering we are basically trying to create an opening repertoire and not for example do deep endgame analysis. 
That being said it useful for the repertoire to avoid lines with obviously zero winning chances.

Have a nice day.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #473 - 01/10/16 at 23:04:53
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Hello.

Interesting try. Of course I had missed looking at 13...Nxd4.

Will take a look after I've finished watching the american football game Im enjoying atm.

Somehow I doubt though that black has some forced line to a safe position.

Have a nice day.
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #472 - 01/10/16 at 22:58:01
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White goes 28. Rf1 and f6 or h5 fall off. The engine says 0.37 for White or something like that but I don't think White has real winning chances...

Therefore, I recommend 4. d3, if people don't have anything against 13... Nxd4 or an improvement for White before that, I'll post some analysis on 4. d3.
  
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #471 - 01/10/16 at 22:29:51
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@NegiRefutes: in the final position of your analysis, I am curious how white will hold the draw.
Can he avoid a rook exchange? If not it seems dead lost as the pieces are inferior to a rook and the (soon to be) two connected passed pawns on the queenside.
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #470 - 01/10/16 at 22:02:28
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Hi,

the 6. Qe2 and 8. 0-0 line seems to be pretty decent and will surprise a lot of opponents, however, there is one line not mentioned that probably leads to a draw:

  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #469 - 01/10/16 at 20:34:48
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Hello.

I have now looked a bit at something after (5...Nf6) in the Jaenisch. 

Given the for me uninspiring nature of the pawn up white positions in either:

(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6+ Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Qxe5 d6 10.Qxf6 Bxf6) or
(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Nxf6+ Qxf6 7.Qe2 Be7 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Nxe5 Qe6)

I did not look at these lines. Instead I took a step back and investigated:

(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Qe2)
 
With the major benefit of this line being that stuff is not exchanged. Initially, after the principled reply to 6.Qe2 of 6...d5, I was planning on going for the line:

(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 Nf6 6.Qe2 d5 7.Nxf6+ gxf6 8.d4)

Mentioned in the thread previously, though not as far as I can see analysed. Realising that an alternative to 8.d4 exists in 8.0-0 I started looking at this and I must say I was quite pleased with the positions reached. I bring you a short pgn of roughly how a repertoire in this line could look like:



Basically I thought I'd ask if anyone sees any drawbacks to this 6.Qe2, 8.0-0 line or if it is something that can be recommended in the Spanish repertoire?

Have a nice day.
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #468 - 01/06/16 at 16:00:16
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Hi,

8... bxc6 in the main  line seems to be completely fine for Black, here is some analysis:



Unless someone has a big improvement on this, I think 4. d3 is a better option.
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #467 - 01/06/16 at 06:12:47
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Hi.

Besides reading through the thread I have looked a fair bit at all the non (5...Nf6) lines. Using the Jaenisch analysis found in the analysis summary from post #265 as base I've been trying to find small refinements and the simple ways to the += when I think I've seen them. 

I present to you a non (5...Nf6) Jaenisch repertoire outline suggestion.



Needless to say a plan would be to make something similar about the (5...Nf6) lines and then maybe fuse that with the file above. That should produce a reasonable Jaenisch repertoire.

Have a nice day.

Edit: attached the file in the pgn window
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: Spanish repertoire
Reply #466 - 01/06/16 at 03:32:40
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Hello.

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 01/02/16 at 20:34:57:
I think I will look into if the Jaenisch coverage is sufficient and post a Jaenisch specific PGN.

Alright. After a fair bit of reading I have come to think that at least the Jaenisch coverage in this thread is very near enough to build a repertoire from. This is true at least for a 4.Nc3 repertoire. The other move 4.d3 has been mentioned as an alternative, though I have not seen much groundwork analysis for a 4.d3 repertoire in the thread; which would be needed.

I would say that for a 4.Nc3 repertoire with the lines discussed in this thread there are two definite mainlines to crack:

(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nf6 Nxf6+ 6.Qxf6 Qe2 7.Be7 Bxc6 8.dxc6)
(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nf6 Nxf6+ 6.Qxf6 Qe2 7.Be7 Bxc6 8.bxc6)

In the 8.dxc6 line as far as I can tell nothing has progressed since TN's magnificent summary of analysis done in post #265 (another summary seems not to have been done since this one btw). If this is enough analytically then the analysis should just be polished (I can do this if no one else will) before being bunched together with the other lines in the Jaenisch repertoire.

In the 8.bxc6 line the much discussed line from post #199 seems to have been hard to find a meaningful advantage in. Perhaps because of this another line was proposed in #362. It seems clear to me that these are two lines that both require a substantial body of proof before they can be considered +=. I wonder if we have this and which of the lines (if any) is to be chosen in the repertoire?

I await some kind of comment on these lines. If we decide to go for something in either line I will gladly help analyze.

Have a nice day.
  
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