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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business? (Read 157077 times)
Vass
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #88 - 09/23/13 at 11:39:00
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Luckytiger wrote on 09/23/13 at 10:55:33:
...if someone will tell me how more readable game text can be posted here - I will do so. I could not find that option Sad

Hi and welcome to this great forum!
As for posting pgn-files here, it's easy. After pressing the "Reply" button, you'll see buttons on the top of the box where you write. When you want to publish a pgn-game, first press the pgn-button and right after that you'll have to place the text of the pgn between the brackets (pgn] and [/pgn).

It will show your text just like this:



Regards!  Smiley
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #87 - 09/23/13 at 10:55:33
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Hello, let me share my thoughts on some of your notes about my book lines. I added them in this file.

[[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2013.09.23"]
[Round "?"]
[White "ChessPub forum"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "A58"]
[Annotator "Aveskulov Valeriy"]
[PlyCount "28"]
[EventDate "2012.01.23"]
[SourceDate "2012.01.23"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5 4. cxb5 a6 5. bxa6 g6 6. Nc3 Bxa6 7. e4 Qa5 $1 (
7... Bxf1 8. Kxf1 d6 9. Nf3 Bg7 10. g3 Nbd7 11. Kg2 O-O 12. a4 $1 Ra6 13. Qc2
Qa8 14. Ra3 $5 {Is the main critical point of 12...Ra6 line. I don't like this
for Black. Here just some games are.} c4 (14... Nb6 15. b3 Ne8 16. Nb5 f5 17.
Rd1 fxe4 18. Qxe4 e5 19. Bg5 Qb7 20. Bd8 Qf7 21. Ra2 h6 22. Nh4 Kh7 23. Be7 Nf6
24. Bxf6 Qxf6 25. Rd3 Nd7 26. Nc7 Rb6 27. Ne6 Rb4 28. Nxf8+ Nxf8 29. Qf3 Qg5
30. Qe3 e4 31. Rd1 Nd7 32. a5 Qd8 33. a6 Qa8 34. Ra4 Rxa4 35. bxa4 Nf6 36. Qe2
Nxd5 37. Qxe4 Ne3+ 38. Kf3 {
1-0 Gajewski,G-Brustkern,J/Limburg NED 2012/The Week in Chess 916}) (14... e6
15. dxe6 fxe6 16. Re1 Ng4 17. Nb5 Qb7 18. Bf4 d5 19. exd5 exd5 20. Bd6 Rc8 21.
Re7 Bf8 22. Qe2 Bxe7 23. Qxe7 Ngf6 24. Ng5 d4+ 25. Rf3 Re8 26. Qf7+ Kh8 27. Nc7
Raa8 28. Nce6 Rxe6 29. Nxe6 Rg8 30. Nxc5 Qc6 31. Nxd7 Nxd7 32. Qxd7 Qxd7 33.
Be5+ Qg7 34. Bxg7+ Kxg7 35. b4 Rd8 36. Kf1 Rc8 37. a5 Rc1+ 38. Ke2 Rb1 39. Ra3
{1-0 Leitao,R-Leon Hoyos,M/Istanbul TUR 2012/The Week in Chess 931}) (14... Rc8
15. h3 {being ready for c5c4} c4 16. Be3 Nc5 17. Bxc5 Rxc5 18. Rha1 $14) 15.
Be3 e6 16. dxe6 fxe6 17. Rd1 Qb7 18. h3 Rb8 19. Rd2 Qb4 20. Qd1 d5 21. exd5
Nxd5 22. Nxd5 exd5 23. Rxd5 c3 24. Rxd7 cxb2 25. Qd5+ Kh8 26. Rd8+ {
1-0 Gajewski,G-Beukema,S/Limburg NED 2012/The Week in Chess 916}) 8. Bd3 Bg7 9.
Rb1 {The move you discuss here. I really don't understand what wrong with this
line for Black is.} d6 10. Nf3 Nbd7 11. O-O O-O 12. h3 Rfb8 {with idea Nf6-e8-c
7 to cover b5-square and to get a normal compensation on "a" and "b" files.}
13. Bg5 h6 14. Be3 Ne8 $44 {Nc7 will take b5-square under control, so Black
got the regular Benko compensation.} *]

Regards, Valeriy Aveskulov.

p.s. it's my first post on this forum. so if someone will tell me how more readable game text can be posted here - I will do so. I could not find that option Sad
  
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Dink Heckler
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #86 - 09/20/13 at 08:22:00
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So the dream is still alive (apparently)  Smiley

I'm sure something will turn up in due course. As noted upthread, the Benko has been 'refuted' numerous times, and it's still around. Although it's also possible that its deployment will migrate lower down the rating spectrum, where vague counterchances flourish.
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #85 - 09/19/13 at 20:09:04
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Dink Heckler wrote on 09/18/13 at 09:44:42:
What were their conclusions, if I may ask?


Black gets counterplay.
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #84 - 09/18/13 at 09:44:42
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What were their conclusions, if I may ask?
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #83 - 09/13/13 at 18:43:29
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The 12...Ra6 variation is analysed in the Forum section of the new NIC YB 108 by Peter Boel under the heading "Fighting the a4-Nb5 Set-Up".
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #82 - 09/10/13 at 11:20:32
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MartinC wrote on 09/10/13 at 08:22:04:
But isn't white just much better organised than 'usual' if black plays slowly? No loss of time in castling by hand etc.

Either there should be something concrete for black to do earlier, or the cure may very well be worse than the disease.


Yes this was my thought also. Therefore I looked at a quick ...e6 from black. At least I havnt found anything that should scare white from  playing Nikos (slow) variation. Here is the closest I got: 



And if a quick ...e6 in the Benkø doesnt punish slow white opening play, then I dont know what will. 

Ben




  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #81 - 09/10/13 at 08:22:04
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But isn't white just much better organised than 'usual' if black plays slowly? No loss of time in castling by hand etc.

Either there should be something concrete for black to do earlier, or the cure may very well be worse than the disease.
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #80 - 09/09/13 at 20:45:36
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@gwnn

The basic idea is not to enter the Kaufman variation with 12.a4. Aveskulov gives this move a "!" and says he dont find equality after this move. And that after spending months on this variation. Therefore he suggest an alternative solution with this 7...Qa5 idea. Whether his idea will stand the test of time remains to see, I guess. 

Nikos idea ( as usual  Smiley) of 8.Bd3 followed by 9.Rb1 and 10.Nf3 seems like a very interesting try for white. A bit time consiming, but after looking at some variations with a quick ...e6 it seems to give white the typical edge in the end.  Maybe its better for black to play some ordinary Benkø moves like: 9...d6., 10...Nbd7, with the idea of ...Ng4-e5 as white`s bishop is on d3. White still has the typical edge, but at least he has some chanses to go wrong as in a normal Benkø. 

And thx to TalJechin for posting this ...Qa8 idea in the Kaufman variation. Aveskulov doesnt mention it. And regarding Nikos discovery above, I might think this possibillity is a better  practical try for the black player.

Ben    
  
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #79 - 09/09/13 at 12:47:59
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In what way is Qa5 an improvement over Bxf1? Or is the point simply that it's a much less common move so it's more fun to play? At first sight it would look like white just gained a few tempi over the king walk stuff but I admit of course that this is just an unqualified first impression. Can someone explain to me the basic idea of leaving the bishop on a6?
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #78 - 09/09/13 at 10:55:12
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Ametanoitos wrote on 09/09/13 at 10:01:24:


@TalJechin: Doesn't White have some improvement over the games you showed?


Well, I would imagine so, as 15.Bd2 looks like a tactical weakness due to the Nxd5-idea. The engine prefers 15.Re1+=

Still, the four games with 14...Rc8 in my db - with much stronger players than myself on both sides - have all gone 15.Bd2.

As I mentioned, I rarely play vs the Benko and I don't play it myself so I leave the analysis to those in the know. But imho, putting the Queen on a8 looks like an interesting idea, that may be worth exploring.
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #77 - 09/09/13 at 10:01:24
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Indeed! But what about 9. Rb1!? first with the idea to play 10.Nf3 next while avoiding this tactic? OK, White doesn't really avoid this. For example Black can still play something like  9...Nxd5 10. exd5 Bxc3+ 11. bxc3 Qxc3+ 12. Ke2 Qe5+ 13. Be3 Qxd5 but after say 14. Nf3 Qxa2+ 15. Kf1 Bxd3+ 16. Qxd3 d6 17. g3 O-O 18. Kg2 i still prefer White. Anyway, interesting stuff here and Black might be OK IF he plays really accurate and in the set-up i am proposing the value of the B at d3 and the R at b1 might be questionable and on the other hand this ...Qa5 manouvre is typical in other positions (for example that f4 line) but i am not convinced at all, still.

@TalJechin: Doesn't White have some improvement over the games you showed?
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #76 - 09/09/13 at 08:55:32
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Ametanoitos wrote on 09/09/13 at 06:20:23:
No! My intention is still to play 9.Nf3! With the Bd3 move you only avoid that unpleasant take at f1 and ...Qa6 idea, i was not intending to play Nge2!


It fails for tactical reasons I suppose. Otherwise this would be a nice set-up for white indeed. After 8.Bd3 and 9.Nf3 my Stockfish says 9...Nxd5 and then take on c3. Thats why the Ng1 goes to e2 I think.

@ TalJechin
Yes he covers 7.Nf3. Usually it ends up in a transposition to ML though, if black plays correct. 

Ben
« Last Edit: 09/09/13 at 13:08:46 by Benoniac »  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #75 - 09/09/13 at 07:28:25
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I don't really play the Volga/Benko for either side, but since Black seems to despair about the chances after 12.a4 I thought I'd mention the following idea with 12...Ra6 and 15....c4. That Nxd5 tactic must be sweet to play!

  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #74 - 09/09/13 at 06:53:36
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Kaufman also gives this idea for White in just one game, but he gives the move order 7.Nf3 d6 8.e4 instead, does Aveskulov address that?
  
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