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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business? (Read 157074 times)
Vass
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #103 - 10/30/14 at 08:52:26
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Hi, IsaVulpes!
What you're missing is 14.Bd2! (or even 13.Bd2)

Here I post some games out of my correspondence chess database. Though most of them are not high quality games, you can find the right ideas for white:

  
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IsaVulpes
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #102 - 10/29/14 at 21:18:17
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Has anyone dabbled with:


The idea is very simple: White threatened to 'lock up' the Queenside with Nb5; 
For now this is stopped, as both a4 (which one can actually take here, unlike in ..Qa5 lines, due to the Rook being able to capture first) and e4 are being attacked twice.
With the Nc3 stuck in place, a4 becomes "just a weakness"; since her majesty is also eyeing c3 and b2, White's entire queenside just looks frozen in place to me?!
 
The queen obviously seems to be in a rather dangerous spot there, but before White can start bothering her, he has to to fortify three lone pawns - which should give black plenty time to eg centralize his knights, generating counterplay? 

I'm most definitely neither a good enough player nor sufficiently well-versed in engine analysis to add much to the discussion, but this looked like the by far most logical move to me - curious whether it just got overlooked, or I missed the reason for it being an insufficient try.

E: For the reasons listed, 13.Qc2 seems like a better try for white to me; defending a4, controlling b3, and not giving up protection of the b2-pawn after an eventual Bd2; 
Though I still believe that ..Qb6-Qb4 should be fine? 
Really interested in what I'm blind for in this position!
« Last Edit: 10/30/14 at 03:43:46 by IsaVulpes »  
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TonyRo
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #101 - 10/29/14 at 18:39:54
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In addition, Black needs to solve his problems in the variation in atticus' post #93 after 17.Ra3 Ne5 18.Nxe5 Bxe5 19.Bh4 Nc7 and now 20.g4!?N. This move has the advantage of saving the h4-bishop whilst maintaining the option of securing the e-pawn with f3, something that f4 does not do (you can see the in variations stemming from Haugen-Gonzalez that this is a persistent theme).

I think when I looked at it yesterday that I thought 20...Nxb5 21.axb5 Ra5!? led to some drawn endings, but I can't remember all of the details at the moment. I wasn't sure this was something I'd want to play as Black OTB, but then again, I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid - very few players' preparation at my level is this deep.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #100 - 10/28/14 at 04:11:46
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With regards to the second game after 17.g4, is there anything wrong with 17...g5, e.g. these games:





It's interesting in that the Black player is the same, but one appears to be an OTB game, and the other is is CC game. 

Grin
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #99 - 06/10/14 at 19:10:03
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Niko's suggestion of ...Rb8-b7 is certainly interesting, but still far from giving Black decent compensation, I'm afraid.


I have analysed those games, and I think that white's just better.
Recently Ramirez tried 14...e6 straight away, but I think the move is just bad.

We played two games with Valeri at a thematic tournament in chess.com. Both ended in draws, are far from flawless (no computer assistance), yet I think his plan effectively defuses Naka's 16.Nd1, while I cannot say I was very happy with my position at the (critical?) variation in which Black drops the e7 pawn.


Any thoughts are welcome...
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #98 - 04/25/14 at 18:11:35
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Totally agree - hence my comment. I dug these games out of an e-mail I sent to Nikos when he was writing the newsletter and lazily glanced at the ratings - most of which are in the 2300's.
  
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MNb
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #97 - 04/25/14 at 17:51:32
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TonyRo wrote on 04/25/14 at 17:20:16:
I should have been more careful with the label "high level"

In my opinion not. My current ICCF rating is 2071 and I'm a nobody. A ICCF rating of 2139 is definitely not "high level". Players like Dlugolecki and me are totally capable of screwing things up, with or without silicon assistance.
  

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TonyRo
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #96 - 04/25/14 at 17:20:16
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I should have been more careful with the label "high level" - I'm assuming that with a rating over 2000 people are using a computer and investing some time. My experience on ICCF is that the people who aren't using computers are quickly dispatched and in the range of ~1700. I haven't run into many that fall into this category though.
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #95 - 04/25/14 at 15:57:07
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Grzegorz Dlugolecki (white in the first game) is really not a high level CC player, not when I played him on LSS anyway, I guess he's a very decent player OTB but doesn't use engines (or a pretty bad one)
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #94 - 04/25/14 at 13:32:00
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I analyzed this line a little over a year ago when it's popularity and publicity was spiking, and the line that Tay's offering up is the best that I could find as well. There are a few other high level CC games that are worth looking at - they might be in his notes, I didn't check:



  
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atticus
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #93 - 02/27/14 at 03:25:09
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There's a new book on sight. http://www.amazon.com/Benko-Gambit-Move/dp/1781941572/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8...

It is not absolutely clear from the sample pages but it looks like Tay's offered solution is a second pawn sacrifice as played by Gonzalez. 

  

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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #92 - 09/23/13 at 15:23:06
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After 12...Ra6 13. Qc2 Qa8 14.Ra3 there is also the option of 14...Rb8 as given in the QC newsletter (Ametanoitos). 

http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/Newsletter017July2013.pgn ;

The 7...Qa5 concept is interesting so I guess I will go for the Kindle option even though I have the book...

Ps.
14. Ra3 is not covered in the forum article in NIC YB 108.   
  
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barnaby
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #91 - 09/23/13 at 14:37:11
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Luckytiger wrote on 09/23/13 at 10:55:33:

p.s. it's my first post on this forum. so if someone will tell me how more readable game text can be posted here - I will do so. I could not find that option Sad



indeed they need a lot of upgrades here on this site to modernize it but im not holding my breath for any of it



  
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MartinC
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #90 - 09/23/13 at 12:49:30
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To see what is wrong with this idea for black, compare the positions after move 11 in these two lines.

Black has swapped Bxf1 for Qa5. Qa5 is a reasonable move to have in of course, but not always best and that bishop certainly can't stay on a6 (or b7) for ever. Fairly neutral overall.

However, White has managed Rb1 and Rhf1 for free, and doesn't have the latent weaknes on the a8/h1 diagonal that sometimes motivate h3, Kg1, Kh2 instead. The Bd3 could maybe turn annoying later too and if black plays the logical Bxd3 at some point soon, white looks to be another development tempo up on normal.

None of these are massive problems perhaps but it is entirely unobvious how it might qualify as an improvement for black Smiley You need some good, concrete reasons for it.
  
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Re: Does 12.a4/Qe2 put the Benko out of business?
Reply #89 - 09/23/13 at 12:39:21
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oh, just between, I could not realize that - thank you!

  
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