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FreeRepublic
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #9 - 12/05/24 at 01:09:05
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This line, 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. c3 c5 6. Bd3 Nc6 7. Ne2 cxd4 8. cxd4 f6 9. exf6 Nxf6 10. Nf3 Bd6 11. O-O O-O 12. Bf4 Bxf4 13. Nxf4 Ne4 14. Qc1
is covered in the June 2024 update of ChessPublishing.
  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #8 - 05/13/13 at 02:24:08
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dom wrote on 05/12/13 at 13:22:34:

A)19..Bf5 20.Rfe1 Qf7 


Yes, this is what the latest Hiarcs book recommends .. it appears =.

Quote:

14.Qc1 Qf6! (14....Qd6 15.Ne2 Bd7 16.Qe3 +=) 15.Ne2 Bd7 16.Qb1! (16.Qe3) Be8 17.Bxe4 dxe4 18.Qxe4 Bh5 19.Ne5 Bxe2 20.Qxe2 Nxd4=



Unfortunately here 16. Qe3 scores pretty heavily for White, although this is relatively unexplored territory.

--Jon
  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #7 - 05/12/13 at 13:22:34
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Now I am back home...

14.Qc1 Ng5 15.Nxg5 Qxg5 16.Bxh7+ (16.Ne2 Kudrin-Zuger,Berne 1988 (NIC Survey 25)) Kxh7 17.Nxe6 Qf5 18.Nxf8+ Qxf8 19.Qg5 (19.Qc2+ Bf5) and now Black has two systems limiting kingside activity

A)19..Bf5 20.Rfe1 Qf7 (primary idea is same for alternate system B), exchanging queens, but Black needs to play Qg6 and not Qf6) and soon Raf8

B) 19..Qf5 20.Qh4 (20.Qxf5 Bxf5 21.Rfe1 Kg6 22.f3 Kf6 (22...Nxd4?! 23.Rad1) 23.Rad1 (23.h4? Rh8 24.g3 Nxd4) g5! (to forbid h4) 24.g4 Bd7 25.Kf2 Rh8! (the explanation for 21..Kg6 and no previous Kg8: Black has some idea on h file) 26.Kg3 Ne7! 27.Re5 Ng6 28.Rxd5 Be6 29.Rb5 Nf4 30.d5 Nf3+ 31.Kf2 Rxh2+ (31...Bxd5 Svidler-Ulibin,Russie 1994 (Emms)) 32.Rg1 Rc2 and draw) Kg8 21.Rae1 Be6 22.Re3 Rf8 23.Rh3 Qc2 24.Rxf8+ Kxf8 25.Re1 Qd2=
...idea being to play Rf6 and Rh6 or to get the queen exchange

14.Qc1 Qf6! (14....Qd6 15.Ne2 Bd7 16.Qe3 +=) 15.Ne2 Bd7 16.Qb1! (16.Qe3) Be8 17.Bxe4 dxe4 18.Qxe4 Bh5 19.Ne5 Bxe2 20.Qxe2 Nxd4=

  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #6 - 05/08/13 at 23:33:41
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I think Black was ok in the Aagaard game, at least for a while. So 12. .. Nh5 is a reasonable try, although the statistics are not very good (about 70% for White after 13. Bxd6 in my database).

But probably better to deviate with 11. .. Qc7, about which Aagaard said "is probably more critical, but we believe in White."

--Jon
  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #5 - 05/08/13 at 15:39:52
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Markovich wrote on 05/08/13 at 14:51:38:
I hope I don't stray too far from the topic if I ask what happens when Moskalenko's pet 12...Nh5 is played, instead of 12...Bxf4 as in the Ivanchuk-Ruzele game given below.  Can anyone show a line of play, after that, that leads unambiguously to White's advantage?  I can't, and until I can, I will say that this way of meeting Tarrasch is O.K. for Black.


13 Bxd6 Qxd6 14 Qc2 always felt the way to go for me since 14...Nf6 is more or less forced and analysing it seemed to suggest that black has little play, so although I wanted to play it I've never been comfortable enough.

This was featured in Aagaard-Brynell, Danish League 2013 which is annotated in Aagaard in a Quality Chess newsletter at: http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=1467

A small quote which has quite an interesting point: "12...Nh5?! This is a new line that makes no sense to me.  Look at a not very serious line: 12...Qc7?! 13 Bxd6 Qxd6 Black simply lost a tempo as far as I am concerned" - as after 14 Qc2 Nf6 white has Qc2 for free...
  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #4 - 05/08/13 at 14:51:38
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I hope I don't stray too far from the topic if I ask what happens when Moskalenko's pet 12...Nh5 is played, instead of 12...Bxf4 as in the Ivanchuk-Ruzele game given below.  Can anyone show a line of play, after that, that leads unambiguously to White's advantage?  I can't, and until I can, I will say that this way of meeting Tarrasch is O.K. for Black.

@Jon Dart.  Well, whether to play 3...Nf6 or some other move is more a philosophical question than an analytical one; and welcome to the forum.  I think that a lot of people playing 3...Nf6 do so because it's the most French-like (consistent with opposing pawn chains, themes of destroying White's center, and so forth).  3...c5 in particular is not French-like.
  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #3 - 05/06/13 at 08:31:57
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Yes, Qf6 was also a tempting idea,and I checked it too, (keeping in mind some variations with g5 .. but White can usually counter this..I don't have my games on sight..cannot explain now why).
Qd6 is an idea I tried vs GM Marciano long time ago in similar or same position of one rapid game...the point is in fact Qb4 after Qd6 with the same virtues than an early Qb6: attacking d4 and b2 (Qf6 is only attacking d4 and preparing e5 as in your interesting game)
  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #2 - 05/05/13 at 13:37:58
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14.. Qd6 is interesting and may be playable. It was tried in a few OTB games but there are no recent examples I could find. Most games went 15. Ne2 and White scored well. I couldn't find any correspondence games in this line at all.

A similar idea is 14.. Qf6. I have an old ECO that considers this dubious. One of the games they cite is Ivanchuk-Ruzele, Kramatorsk 1989:


  
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Re: C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
Reply #1 - 05/05/13 at 04:29:45
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Hello Jon and welcome on French forum...
I recorded this ("Fritz's" ?) line with the Bh7+/Nxe6 trick now many years ago, working at that time with the good Emm's book "The French Tarrasch".
Idea for Black with 14...Ng5 is positionnal: removing defense of the d4 pawn...which might lead White in need of a rook protecting it. But Black has no real attack on White's king as in other sub-variation of that main line. At one time I thought about playing 14...Qd6  to question White about the slow move 14.Qc1.
  
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C06: Tarrasch .. Nf6
05/05/13 at 03:04:07
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I see there was some previous discussion of this on this forum ca. 2008.

However, recent games in this line seem to more heavily favor White. In particular the line with 16. Bxh7+ seems to lead to a difficult endgame for Black.

One correspondence game went as follows:



This is a well-known line at least through 23. Re1. I have also observed a recent computer game with 23. Rc1 that was won by White.

Recently few Black players have seemed willing to enter this line .. one of the ways to avoid it is with 11. .. Qc7 instead of O-O. Or of course much earlier by playing the  4. .. c5 or .. Be7 Tarrasch lines (I have Vitiugov's recent book which recommends .. c5).

  
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