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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What can a chess club offer? (Read 16781 times)
brabo
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #15 - 05/05/14 at 19:22:44
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ReneDescartes wrote on 05/05/14 at 18:47:54:
Nor do I look at my opponents' ratings, except in certain circumstances (e.g., when about to win money). I like to party like it's 1899.

I believe knowing the opponents rating is an important piece of information to play optimally the game. Indeed in the 19th century most players just played the board but since Lasker? we know that psychology is also important.
I remember that in 2012 I complained about the illogical Belgian interclub-rules as I didn't get a chance to know in advance the rating of my opponent http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2012/12/de-interclubfaq.html ;
Certain risks I am only willing to take if the player does not have a high rating.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #14 - 05/05/14 at 18:47:54
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That's a shame. Fortunately, that doesn't seem to happen much here yet. I don't even use an engine to analyze the games at home until I've fully annotated them. Nor do I look at my opponents' ratings, except in certain circumstances (e.g., when about to win money). I like to party like it's 1899.
  
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brabo
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #13 - 05/05/14 at 18:37:43
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ReneDescartes wrote on 05/05/14 at 17:22:28:
In any event, in a club my opponent and I work out most of the moves in front of each other, and then we have a friendly post-mortem.

A new development which I recently noticed is that players just switch on their portables/tablets/iphones/.... during the post-mortem to get an immediate "final" evaluation of the critical positions. I can also do that at home and often much better so also the post-mortems are losing their interest in clubs.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #12 - 05/05/14 at 17:22:28
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For blitz maybe, but for classical chess I always feel a club is best. The primary thing is the human contact, as has been noted. Another reason, though, is that it's hard to invest several hours if you think you might be playing an engine.

Markovich wrote on 03/06/11 at 15:17:26:
As I have said before, I do play with computer assistance in some [cheap correspondence] venues where computers are banned but play is anonymous. [...] Call me and these others cheats if you wish, but I can't see that it's skin off anyone's nose if "CaptainKidd" beats "SnowWhite" using a computer.  Nothing is at stake.


When even Markovich says he uses engines in situations he doesn't deem to be serious enough, I hesitate to play slow games online. In a club, cheating with an engine is possible but probably very rare, as it requires a lot more ill will and nerve than online. Certainly Markovich, for example, would never do it, since he doesn't even do it in online where players use their real names. In any event, in a club my opponent and I work out most of the moves in front of each other, and then we have a friendly post-mortem.
  
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brabo
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #11 - 05/05/14 at 10:05:13
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For blitz I seldom go to my club. It is approximately 1 hour drive (30 minutes one way) and the best opposition is normally around 2100 fide. At home I can just switch on my PC and play for free games against FM/ IM level. Even more important is that all games are automatically saved and can be used during preparation (http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2012/11/de-onzin-van-blitz.html)

However playing at home isn't ideal either. Wife and kids are continuously disturbing me during my games so often I have to wait till they are in bed which makes that I am already pretty tired.

Playchess provides all the necessary tools for creating events, tournaments,... In the Netherlands several clubs are using that platform. I believe in Italy they created their own online platform. This requests an initial investment but afterwards it is much cheaper than playchess.
  
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hicetnunc
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #10 - 05/05/14 at 09:50:47
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I think you can easily organize pretty much everything you want for a chess club by using an existing platform, such as chess.com's groups.
  

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TalJechin
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #9 - 05/05/14 at 09:16:16
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Well, at my club we do have a hard core which gather during the Saturday blitz and usually goes out to eat afterwards. (we even have boards & clocks at a few pubs/restaurants!)

Thursdays became "training day" about six months ago, but only a handful seem to show up the last few months...

Maybe it's not online blitz per se that is competing with clubs, but life - after all, you can play online at home and when you close the computer there's still some time to spend with wife and kids - time you'd lose on the journey back and forward to the club... :/

Perhaps it's better to spend most time and energy on bigger/more special events?

Moving some of the club's activities to online events as some of you have suggested, could be an interesting idea - though it may require a good platform to do it, and most clubs don't have someone with the skill or time to create that. Could be a niche for some existing sites though, or do they already offer "club events" on some?
  
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #8 - 05/05/14 at 03:59:39
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/04/14 at 18:18:16:
Some free lectures or game analysis/discussions by stronger players would probably go very far, though of course you have to find someone willing to offer their services.  I'm thinking of something akin to what they do in St. Louis, though for most clubs anyone rated 2200+ would probably be good enough to help the vast majority of members.  

In my opinion, you don't really need a GM to do something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69TK-VSUaek

and I imagine that's a very big draw for players. 


That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw this thread. Regular lectures give the club members a chance to learn, interact and as you mentioned talk to stronger players. 

I think another way clubs can prosper is by organising regular interclub team tournaments - and taking brabo's idea, the matches could take place online as well as over-the-board (for instance, the competition could be broadened by having the chess clubs in a region go to each other for matches, and then the winner of each region of a city, state, country or group of countries could play matches over the board to decide the champion, like what is done in the European, American and Asian Leagues). 

The main thing you're after for a club is a good atmosphere and culture - where the members get along, interact, play chess and help each other out.
  

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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #7 - 05/05/14 at 03:00:21
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The best thing I ever got from going to a club, personally, was hearing stronger players than myself talking after or about a game.  It's incredibly helpful to hear how stronger players approach a position, what they were worried about and were trying to accomplish, etc.
  
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #6 - 05/04/14 at 21:07:56
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TalJechin wrote on 05/04/14 at 09:17:50:
At least up here in the north, chess clubs are bleeding members every year. Most of the lost players keep playing on the net, but don't seem to want or need a club.

So, I was just wondering what more a club can do to appeal to adult players who may feel they've already peaked?

Arranging tournaments, training sessions, watching online events at the club and playing a lot of blitz are the main points at the moment.

It would be interesting to see other ideas, like new tournament formats etc etc that have worked in other places for retaining more players from this group. 

Is there anything more a chess club can reasonably offer to win back onliners?


Maybe you should ask people who left why they left ?

I personnaly think the interaction you get with someone OTB can't be replicated online, so I always prefer to play OTB if possible.

Training sessions + organizing tournaments sounds like what I would expect from a good chess club (add friendly people). 

Maybe some people just want to play blitz no end, but then, what can you do ?   Embarrassed
  

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brabo
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #5 - 05/04/14 at 19:38:25
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Instead of fighting online chess, you can use online chess to grow as chessclub. In fact this is what today more and more Dutch clubs are doing. They offer besides a membership of their club also a cheaper tariff for chessbase membership. The next step is to organize online tournaments, online simuls, online classes,... In one of my first Dutch articles I already discussed this topic: http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.be/2012/02/clubschaak-en-of-internetschaak.html

A chessclub is still the only place where you can get meaningful ratings and/or  play games with long time controls (without engine corruption). As a chessclub this must be propagandized by also attracting people able to participate irregularly. This year I played for the first time rated games in which you could decide each week individually if you want to play, which level of opposition you prefer, rated or not and agree with the opponent which timecontrol you choose. Maximum flexibility permitting a maximum of players to participate.

Creating a band between the players:
- going together to external tournaments for playing or watching
- organize other non chess related activities: eating, ...

Now if a club really wants to grow then you need to have some volunteers willing to demonstrate the game at schools and organize youth lessons so interested students can begin at a lower level.
  
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #4 - 05/04/14 at 18:50:19
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99.9% of all life forms that once lived on the planet are extinct.

Chess clubs soon to join the list with exception of places such as St Louis where a sugar daddy foots the bill and does not seem or need to keep mind of financial balances.
  
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #3 - 05/04/14 at 18:18:16
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Some free lectures or game analysis/discussions by stronger players would probably go very far, though of course you have to find someone willing to offer their services.  I'm thinking of something akin to what they do in St. Louis, though for most clubs anyone rated 2200+ would probably be good enough to help the vast majority of members.   

In my opinion, you don't really need a GM to do something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69TK-VSUaek

and I imagine that's a very big draw for players.
  
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #2 - 05/04/14 at 18:15:43
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TalJechin wrote on 05/04/14 at 09:17:50:
At least up here in the north, chess clubs are bleeding members every year. Most of the lost players keep playing on the net, but don't seem to want or need a club.

So, I was just wondering what more a club can do to appeal to adult players who may feel they've already peaked?

Arranging tournaments, training sessions, watching online events at the club and playing a lot of blitz are the main points at the moment.

It would be interesting to see other ideas, like new tournament formats etc etc that have worked in other places for retaining more players from this group. 

Is there anything more a chess club can reasonably offer to win back onliners?


Great idea for a thread. It's probably a problem shared by most clubs. 
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: What can a chess club offer?
Reply #1 - 05/04/14 at 17:36:44
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There have been sociological studies in the US tracking the demise of bowling leagues around the country. Basically, the loser in this great social revolution where every community can exist virtually online is the old fashioned community of people who band together in an actual meeting place.

Bowling leagues are fighting this trend by offering cheaper food (food!), and bowling lessons for high school credit, but they still have dwindling enrollments. 

Different tournament formats and tinkering with leagues won't really address the basic issue: it's much easier to find a competitive game of chess online, regardless what level you find competitive, than in a local club. 

In order for chess clubs to survive, you need to find ways to make them feel like a community, and make it worth their social time to travel to that club once a week. It's not about the chess, it's about the community you're trying to build.

(Edited to correct a spelling error.)
« Last Edit: 05/04/14 at 20:17:09 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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