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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Symmetrical "Grunfeld" (Read 10772 times)
TD
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Re: Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
Reply #7 - 09/28/20 at 14:34:11
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MNb wrote on 09/28/20 at 14:23:43:

Have you thought of the transposition 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 g6 3.b3 Bg7 4.Bb2 ?
a) 4...b6 5.Bg2 Bb7 6.O-O O-O 7.c4 c5 8.d4 breaks the symmetry in a more effective way than possible in the Symmetrical Grünfeld.
b) 4...d6 5.Bg2 O-O 6.d4 is the variation you like.
c) 4...O-O 5.Bg2 c6 6.O-O d5 gives White the options 7.c4 and 7.d3.

3.b3 like Hausrath's Double Fianchetto and maybe transposing to Sielecki.
a) 8.d4! Demuth

Georg Meier and Oleg Romanishin are also interesting players to follow.
  
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CanadianClub
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Re: Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
Reply #6 - 09/28/20 at 14:32:03
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Hi Tony

For me THIS is the line I don't like of the 1.Nf3 + 2.g3 approach against 1...Nf6 + 2...g6 by Black. You have direct line with some strong german GM that plays some of this lines also, haven't you? Wink Or not anymore?

I have access to Sielecki's work but I have not arrived to this chapter yet (I am working on the Catalan right now).

So any extra advice and/or alternatives would be great. Some years ago I checked Hilton&Ippolito and I didn't like their lines, but at that time I was playing d4+c4 religiously and I preferred other lines in the Grünfeld. Now I use the Reti move order and my chess horizons had broadened a little... I'll revisit it again.

Interesting thread Smiley
  
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Re: Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
Reply #5 - 09/28/20 at 14:27:58
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I'm in similar position -- really like the 5... d6 6 b3 KID and have had great results against stronger players there but Grunfeld is tough.

I've been playing 7 b3 and have had okay results against weaker players and the good news is stronger players aren't going for Grunfeld probably because of 7 cxd5 but am not really looking forward to classical games with 7 b3 against equal strength players.

I was looking at 7 Qb3 the other day and somehow 9 Na4 Qxb3 10 axb3 appealed to me -- of course I'm sure Black is fine there but felt like one of those positions where White's pieces are active and has more natural moves than Black.

I was pretty put off my this Svidler - Ding game though with 7 Qb3 a5 8 cxd5 a4 9 Qd1 cxd5 10 Nc3 Qa5 11 Bd2 Nc6 12 e3 Qa6 13 Re1 and the whole White setup didn't feel natural to me at all, but maybe White can try 13 b3 a3 14 Ne5.

I play 1 d4 but coming from 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 g6, have you considered 3 b3?  And only play d2-d4 if Black plays ...d6?  If Black plays ...d5 instead you can play c2-c4 but wait on d2-d4.  I guess in some lines if Black plays waiting moves maybe d4 is the strongest move and it could transpose but at least you cut out some options and sometimes might be able to put the pawn on d3 and play e2-e4 eventually.

You might be able to get games like this:

[Event "Sukooon Resort Indian"]
[White "Swapnil,S Dhopade"]
[Black "Padmini,Rout"]
[Site "chess.com INT"]
[Round "5.3"]
[Annotator ""]
[Result "1-0"]
[Date "2020.05.15"]
[WhiteElo "2495"]
[BlackElo "2370"]
[PlyCount "131"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 g6 3. b3 Bg7 4. Bb2 0-0 5. Bg2 d5 6. c4 c6 7. 0-0 Bg4 8. d3 Nbd7 9. Nbd2 Re8 10. h3 Bxf3 11. Nxf3 e5 12. cxd5 cxd5 13. Rc1 Qb6 14. Qc2 e4 15. dxe4 dxe4 16. Ng5 e3 17. Qc4 Re7 18. Bd4 Qa5 19. f4 h6 20. b4 Qd8 21. Nf3 Nh5 22. Bxg7 Kxg7 23. Kh2 Qb6 24. Rfd1 Rae8 25. Qd4+ Qxd4 26. Rxd4 Nb6 27. Rc3 Re4 28. Rxe4 Rxe4 29. a3 Re7 30. Nd4 Nf6 31. Nc2 Nfd5 32. Rd3 Rc7 33. Nxe3 Nc3 34. Bf3 Nba4 35. Nd5 Nxd5 36. Rxd5 Nc3 37. Rc5 Rxc5 38. bxc5 Na4 39. Bxb7 Nxc5 40. Bd5 f5 41. Kg2 Kf6 42. Kf3 g5 43. Ke3 gxf4+ 44. gxf4 Nd7 45. Kd4 Ke7 46. Bc4 Kd6 47. Bd3 Ke6 48. Kc4 Nf6 49. Kb5 Nh5 50. e3 Nf6 51. Ka6 Nd5 52. Bc4 Kd6 53. Bxd5 Kxd5 54. Kxa7 Ke4 55. Kb6 Kxe3 56. a4 Kxf4 57. a5 Kg3 58. a6 f4 59. a7 Kxh3 60. a8=Q Kg3 61. Qg8+ Kf2 62. Qa2+ Kg3 63. Qg8+ Kf2 64. Kc5 f3 65. Kd4 Ke2 66. Qa2+ 1-0

[Event "Lake Sevan"]
[White "Amin,Bassem"]
[Black "Martirosyan,Haik M"]
[Site "Martuni"]
[Round "2"]
[Annotator ""]
[Result "1-0"]
[Date "2017.07.15"]
[WhiteElo "2672"]
[BlackElo "2544"]
[PlyCount "157"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 d5 3. Bg2 c6 4. c4 g6 5. b3 Bg7 6. Bb2 0-0 7. d3 Bg4 8. Nbd2 Nbd7 9. 0-0 Re8 10. h3 Bxf3 11. Nxf3 e5 12. cxd5 cxd5 13. Rc1 e4 14. dxe4 dxe4 15. Nd2 e3 16. Nc4 Ne4 17. Bxe4 Bxb2 18. Bxb7 Bxc1 19. Bxa8 exf2+ 20. Rxf2 Be3 21. Nxe3 Rxe3 22. Rf3 Qb6 23. Rxe3 Qxe3+ 24. Kg2 Ne5 25. Bf3 a5 26. Qc2 h5 27. a3 Qd4 28. Qc1 Kg7 29. Bb7 Qb6 30. Bd5 Qb5 31. Qd2 Qc5 32. b4 axb4 33. axb4 Qb5 34. Bf3 Nxf3 35. exf3 Qe5 36. h4 Kg8 37. Qc2 Qb5 38. Qb2 Kf8 39. Kf2 Qb6+ 40. Ke2 Qe6+ 41. Kf2 Qb6+ 42. Kf1 Qc6 43. Qh8+ Ke7 44. Qe5+ Kd7 45. Qd4+ Kc8 46. Kf2 Qc2+ 47. Ke3 Qc1+ 48. Ke4 Qc2+ 49. Qd3 Qc6+ 50. Ke3 Qc1+ 51. Kd4 Qg1+ 52. Qe3 Qxg3 53. Qe8+ Kb7 54. Qxf7+ Kc8 55. Qe6+ Kb7 56. Qe4+ Kb6 57. Qe6+ Kb7 58. Qe7+ Kc8 59. Qf6 Qf2+ 60. Kd5 Qa2+ 61. Kd6 Qd2+ 62. Ke6 Qxb4 63. Kf7 Qb1 64. f4 Qc2 65. Kg7 Qe4 66. Qe5 Qc6 67. Kh6 Qg2 68. Qe8+ Kc7 69. Qxg6 Qg4 70. Qg5 Kd6 71. f5 Ke5 72. Kg6 Qf3 73. Qf6+ Kf4 74. Qd4+ Kg3 75. f6 Kh2 76. Qe5+ Kh1 77. f7 Qg3+ 78. Qg5 Qd3+ 79. Kg7 1-0











 

  
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MNb
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Re: Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
Reply #4 - 09/28/20 at 14:23:43
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TonyRo wrote on 09/28/20 at 12:50:23:
just looking to see what the experts here

I am far from one, but you will get my 2 SRD anyway.

TonyRo wrote on 09/28/20 at 12:50:23:
but I really struggle to find something I like against the Grunfeld here.

I suppose you need the skills of Karpov to succeed. I always found it one of his least attractive opening choices.

TonyRo wrote on 09/28/20 at 12:50:23:
I don't expect that White has much of an advantage at all

Have you thought of the transposition 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 g6 3.b3 Bg7 4.Bb2 ?
a) 4...b6 5.Bg2 Bb7 6.O-O O-O 7.c4 c5 8.d4 breaks the symmetry in a more effective way than possible in the Symmetrical Grünfeld.
b) 4...d6 5.Bg2 O-O 6.d4 is the variation you like.
c) 4...O-O 5.Bg2 c6 6.O-O d5 gives White the options 7.c4 and 7.d3.

Perhaps there is a downside to this transpo trick?
  
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TD
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Re: Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
Reply #3 - 09/28/20 at 14:16:51
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I have mostly been a 1.Nf3 (Reti/English) player, but the last couple of years I am playing a later d2-d4 (Catalan/KID/GID) more and more. I find those Grunfeld-positions the toughest nut to crack.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
Reply #2 - 09/28/20 at 14:06:30
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Yes, the other option I have examined in moderate detail is 7.Qb3 Qb6 8.Nc3 Rd8 9.Bd2!? - relatively solid choice.
  
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TD
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Re: Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
Reply #1 - 09/28/20 at 13:20:12
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I am not experienced (yet) in this position, but since I started playing online correspondence chess I have tried 7.Qb3 once, following Hilton & Ippolito and Burgess.

I have played 7.b3 OTB twice, with mixed results.
  
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TonyRo
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Symmetrical "Grunfeld"
09/28/20 at 12:50:23
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I am generally playing 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 lately, and man...I hate the position after 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 g6 3.Bg2 Bg7 4.O-O O-O 5.d4 d5. Against 5...d6 I am very happy with 6.b3!?, but I really struggle to find something I like against the Grunfeld here. Does anyone have any favorites? I know Selecki recommends 6.c4, and we agree on the Re1 idea against 6...dxc4, but I am not a huge fan stylistically of 6...c6 7.b3, etc. So if you recommend 6.c4 to me instead of the lesser alternatives, please be specific about your favorites against the solid 6...c6 as well. I don't expect that White has much of an advantage at all, just looking to see what the experts here find practically dangerous and enjoyable. I have had the best luck going 7.cxd5 cxd5 8.Ne5, hoping that they don't know about 8...Ng4!. Cheesy
  
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