Thanks MNb. I guess you have answered my Q in the sense that Jones doesn't deal with the precise move-orders I mentioned, where White has been encouraged to play f2-f3. I guess that e4-e5 tactic is only strong because White has not only saved on f2-f3 but is also able to get a quick Nh3-f4 in.

In my line in (2) maybe Black can also try 7 ...Nd7 and meet 8 f3 with 8 ...Nb6 (though 7 ...Nf6, forcing(?) f2-f3, seems more 'thematic'). Of course, I make no claims for any of this! One or two of the lines show plus scores for Black in my best database, but it's immediately noticeable that the opponents are significantly lower-rated!

The 5 h4!? lines make me wonder whether Jones considers 5 Qd2 b5 6 h4 h6 7 0-0-0 Nf6!?. My reasoning:

(1) As regards 5 h4 Nf6 6 h5!, I agree with C_b_T that 8 ...Qd7 is the way Black needs to go (pretty well forced, I'd say!), and it seems to me in-depth engine analysis is needed to establish whether he's OK or not.

(2) 5 h4 h6 may look rather passive and reactive, but it was the choice of Modern guru Kamsky and who am I to argue? After 6 Qd2 b5 7 0-0-0 (7 h5 g5) we have indeed transposed to a Jones line, but Black doesn't have to play ...Bb7: he could go 7 ...Nf6 8 f3 Nbd7 (or 7 ...Nd7 8 f3 Ngf6) instead. Does Jones consider this position? -- it's the same as 6 h4 Nf6 7 f3 Nbd7 8 g4 h6 in Note '*' in my h4 h5 post above (my T7) except that White has played 0-0-0 iso g2-g4. (It's interesting perhaps that after 9 Nh3 in that note, THP gives 9 ...Bb7 but says he's sceptical, hence the 9 ...Nb6 suggestion ...) Hopefully White being committed to 0-0-0 might make quick Nge2 as well as a2-a4 ideas less threatening, but who knows ...

Maybe
1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. Be3 a6 5. h4 h6!?

Simply is the way for black to play

Hi.

Michael Ayton wrote on 01/01/22 at 15:12:30:

7.a4 is very interesting, but not much explored.

Edit: Other than that. Yea there are some good suggestions in 4.Be3 lately; where it looks to be some difficulty in equalising. In the end though there is some need for more games testing all these new suggestions.

Have a nice day.

Nothing, I'm afraid. GM Jones neglects 6.h4 (it's a repertoire book) and after 6.O-O-O only looks at Bb7, Nf6 and Nd7.

Fyi: GM Jones suggests

6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Nd7? 8 Nh3 c6 9 Ng5 Qc7 10.Bf4 (N).
6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Nf6 8 f3 Bb7? 9 Nh3 Nbd7 10 Ng5 e6 11 a3.
6.h4 h6 7.O-O-O Bb7 8.f3 Nd7 9.Nh3 Ngf6 10.g4 (9...Rc8 10.Kb1 c5 11.g4 and 9...e6 10.g4).

He avoids

6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Nf6 8 f3 c6 9 Kb1 Qc7 10 e5 Nd5
by proposing 6.O-O-O Nf6 7.f3 Nbd7 and only now 8.h4 h5 9.Nh3 answering c6 with 10.e5.

6 h4 h5 7 f3 Nd7 8 Nh3 Bb7 9 Ng5 c5 10 dc Nc5
by 7.Nh3 saving the tempo on f2-f3.


Like I wrote GM Jones makes the Modern look like refuted. The only weak spot I found thus far is 5.Qd2 b5 6.O-O-O  Bb7 7.f3 Nd7 8.h4 Ngf6 9.g4 c5 10.h5 Rg8!? That can probably be avoided by playing 5.h4 at once (my preference). WIth my simple coffeehouse thinking I say that if you are going to play h2-h4 anyway you could as well do it at once.

By now I think I understand why GM Jones prefers 4...a6 5.h3 to 5.Qd2 in the Pirc. Black can play Nb8-d7-b6 before White gets h4 and Nh3 in. Now I've gotta find out what's the objection to (Modern) 4.Be3 a6 5.f4 b5 6.Bd3.

Here as promised (in two posts) is my attempt at a comprehensive lowdown on …h5/…h6 issues/move orders. (Actually there are one or two things here I'd meant to return to/tweak, but that'll have to be for later ...)

It’s my current understanding that …h7–h6 can always be played against h2–h4, while in at least one case …h7–h5 shouldn’t be. I think the moves are best considered together rather than in isolation. What I’ve set out below is mainly an organised summary of statements (in his books) by top Modern theorist Tiger Hillarp-Persson (THP), supplemented with comments by ChessPublishing’s own Daniel Fernandez (DF). The latter’s book (which doesn’t cover h4 h6 lines, though it doesn’t critique them) is pretty recent and (see below) I don’t feel I can just quote all its recommendations. It’s in broad agreement with Tiger regarding which lines are bad, but departs from him in several of its positive suggestions. One implication of this might be that Daniel regards tabiyas 3 and 4 below as not so great for Black; be this as it may, his suggestions do result in significantly different positions in several cases. Anyway, I’m hoping that he might see this thread and comment accordingly in an update!

I’ll begin by listing a number of tabiyas (which can be reached by several different move orders, of course) following 4 Be3 a6 5 Qd2 b5, the first three of which Black should avoid as being bad for him – I’ll call these ‘BT’ and the others ‘T’. I’ll then set out some basic lines in two sections, (A) Black favours h4 h5 and (B) Black favours h4 h6 (this latter in a separate post), keying them into the tabiyas. Nearly all of these are lines involving different combinations of h4, 0-0-0 and f2–f3, which I take to be the most critical; I haven’t included other lines, such as those with a2–a4, for instance. In six places in section A (and three in section B, already mentioned in ‘A’), I’ve indicated by underline where DF prefers an alternative to the move given.

Tabiyas

6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Bb7? 8 Nh3 Nd7 9 Ng5 c6 10 e5! (BT1)
6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Nd7? 8 Nh3 c6 9 Ng5 Qc7 10 f3 Ngf6 11 Kb1 Bb7 (11 …0-0 12 g4!) 12 g3! (BT2)
6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Nf6 8 f3 Bb7? 9 Nh3 Nbd7 10 Ng5 e6 (10 …0-0 11 g4!) 11 Kb1! (BT3)

6 h4 h5 7 Nh3 Bh3 8 Rh3 Nd7 (T1)
6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Nf6 8 f3 c6 9 Nh3 Bh3 10 Rh3 Nbd7 (T2)
6 h4 h5 7 0-0-0 Nf6 8 f3 c6 9 Kb1 Qc7 10 e5 Nd5 (T3 – THP implies this is critical)
6 h4 h5 7 f3 Nd7 8 0-0-0 Bb7 9 Nh3 Rc8 (T4)
6 h4 h5 7 f3 Nd7 8 Nh3 Bb7 9 Ng5 c5 10 dc Nc5 (T5 – DF implies this is critical)

6 h4 h6 7 f3 Nd7 8 0-0-0 Bb7 (T6)
6 h4 h6 7 f3 Nd7 8 Nh3 Nf6 9 g4 Nb6 (T7)

*****


(A)  Black favours h4 h5 lines

I  6 h4 h5* →

(a) 7 Nh3 Bh3 8 Rh3 Nd7! (8 …Nf6? 9 a4!) is T1

(b) 7 0-0-0 Nf6 (7 …Bb7? 8 Nh3 → BT1; 7 …Nd7? 8 Nh3 c6 [8 …Bb7 9 Ng5 → BT1] 9 Ng5 → BT2)
      8 f3 c6! (8 …Bb7? 9 Nh3 → BT3) →

     (i) 9 Nh3 Bh3 10 Rh3 Nbd7 is T2
     (ii) 9 Kb1! Qc7 10 e5 Nd5 is T3

(c) 7 f3 →

     (i) 7 …Nf6 → § 8 0-0-0 c6 is I(b) above
                       § 8 Nh3 Bh3 9 Rh3 Nbd7 10 0-0-0 c6 is   T2 

     (ii) 7 …Nd7 → § 8 0-0-0 Bb7 9 Nh3 Rc8 (9 …Ngf6? 10 Ng5 →  BT3; 9 …e6? 10 Ng5 Ngf6 11 Kb1 is BT3) 10 Ng5 c5 is T4
                        § 8 Nh3 Bb7 9 Ng5 (9 0-0-0 Rc8 is T4)  c5! (9 …Ngf6? 10 0-0-0 → BT3) 10 dc Nc5 is T5 


II  6 0-0-0 Bb7** (6 …Nd7 7 h4 h5? 8 Nh3 c6 [8 …Bb7 9 Ng5 → BT1] 9 Ng5 → BT2) →

(a) 7 f3 Nd7 →

     (i) 8 h4 h5*** is I(c)ii above, with 8 0-0-0 Bb7 
     (ii) 8 g4 c5 9 h4 h6 is T6, with 9 g4 c5 (For the main ninth-move options in T6, see Section B.)

(b) 7 h4 h6! (Black should consent to an h4 h6 line, since 7 …h5? 8 Nh3 → BT1) 8 f3 Nd7 is T6 


III  6 f3 Nd7 → 

(a) 7 h4 h5**** is I(c)ii above

(b) 7 0-0-0 Bb7 is II(a) above

(c) 7 g4 Bb7 →

     (i) 8 0-0-0 c5 9 h4 h6 is T6, with 9 g4 c5 
     (ii) 8 Nge2 c5 9 h4 h6 is T6, with 9 g4 c5 



Notes

* Black can also play 6 …Nf6 here. Now, after 7 f3, 7 …h5 is I(c)i below (hence THP’s calling 6 …h5 inferior to 6 …Nf6 seems illogical), while 7 …Nbd7!? 8 g4 h6 9 Nh3 Nb6 is T7, which is essentially an h4 h6 line.
** After 6 0-0-0 this is the (only) sound way of responding to h4 with …h5 – and even here this can be recommended only after 7 f3 Nd7 8 h4 (II(a)i). (Of course, playing something else entirely on move six short-circuits this whole debate!)
*** 8 …h6 is T6, of course.
**** 7 …h6 8 0-0-0 Bb7 is T6 or T7, of course.