Normal Topic What programs to start with? (Read 339 times)
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1848
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: What programs to start with?
Reply #6 - Today at 00:43:17
Post Tools
Have you tried to download the lichess database and use it in SCID? I don't mean that sarcastically, I've never tried - I'd be curious how quickly SCID manages. It's 3 billion games - I suspect that might be a slog to use as an openings explorer, but I'd love to be proven wrong! If you use the lichess API it's already indexed (and as you say, filterable), so it's instantaneous.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1813
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: What programs to start with?
Reply #5 - yesterday at 23:15:45
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 06/22/26 at 12:43:39:
Just to be clear here, since I suspect there was a misunderstanding - I believe John was suggesting lichess here for the actual lichess database, which is the database of all games played on lichess, filterable by rating and time control.

I don't think there was a misunderstanding. What I was suggesting is that you don't have to use lichess as a (web-based) GUI in order to access whatever statistics you want. Scid has the same statistics done better.

And let's not conflate the data with the database management system. Those are two separate things. The same goes for the ChessBase database (the GUI) and the ChessBase database (the games). People use the same name for two different things, but you can get the second without getting the first. Personally I love the ChessBase database (the games), but am not impressed by the ChessBase database (the GUI).

The lichess database can be downloaded. If that's a bit much, it can be filtered first by rating and time control, and then downloaded. Open the lichess database in Scid (but see edit below), if that's what you want. Not sure why anybody is interested in the lichess database, it looks like a mountain of dung to me, but if you want it Scid can handle it.

Now what you can do in Scid. Open the tree window for the downloaded lichess database. Open the tree window for your "mygames" database. Two tree windows at once. (If you have multiple monitors, you can knock yourself out opening tree windows on other databases.) Step through a game, and for every move you can see statistics for every candidate in the lichess database matched up against statistics for every candidate in mygames. That beats the pants off going over a game in a lichess study.

What Scid can't do is filter the database and have the tree window show statistics for only the filtered games, on the fly, like lichess can do. The tree window always shows statistics for the full database. But there is an easy work-around. Drag the filtered games to the clipbase, and open the tree window on the clipbase. If you want to change the filter, do that in the original database, empty the clipbase, and drag the newly filtered games to the clipbase.

Edited:
Ah, lichess and Scid. Lichess puts a unique URI in the Site tag, which blows up the Scid index when converting the database to Scid format. So you will want to "fix" the Site tag before the conversion (I would use awk), or simply remove it entirely (grep with the -v option, or pgn-extract with the --xroster option). If your lichess download is huge, you will want to use a stream option rather than trying to open the whole file in a text editor and doing a search/replace.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cathexis
God Member
*****
Offline


No matter where you go,
there you are.

Posts: 662
Location: Stafford, Virginia USA
Joined: 03/03/20
Gender: Male
Re: What programs to start with?
Reply #4 - 06/22/26 at 14:08:40
Post Tools
FWIW: SCID is the best FREE option, Fritz only without all of Chessbase is the easiest not-free option. Fritz because you can pick up all manner of instructional and database programs with video options ala carte as you go along, and it's easy to use. If you do manage to find an older version still unregistered ("new-old") be sure to google the latest version of Stockfish and use that as your engine inside of Fritz.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1848
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: What programs to start with?
Reply #3 - 06/22/26 at 12:43:39
Post Tools
an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 06/21/26 at 01:17:54:
Opening study: start in Lichess studies to access their statistics (find moves actually played at your level) 
   aoc: better than that, Scid has a fine tree for statistics

Just to be clear here, since I suspect there was a misunderstanding - I believe John was suggesting lichess here for the actual lichess database, which is the database of all games played on lichess, filterable by rating and time control. This allows you to map out what opening lines and moves are actually popular at your level relative to what a typical reference DB (Megabase, Caissabase, the lichess Masters DB, etc) would say. It varies wildly across rating ranges, and so the latter databases can be a bit misleading. 

I have been working on an open-source, cross-platform alternative to SCID for many months now, I'm calling it Tabiya. In a few months I'm hoping to open it up to beta testers. Anyone reading this that's interested, shoot me a PM and I'll reach back out when the time comes. I have used Chessbase and SCID quite a bit over the years, but find Chessbase to be massively bloated, whilst SCID looks a bit old and can be slightly cumbersome. Tabiya is designed to hopefully be in the sweet spot - looks a bit more modern and does only what I'd consider to be critical and useful for most people trying to improve at chess. It uses Chessground and the color schemes are similar to lichess light/dark mode, so if you like the way lichess looks, you'll probably  like using it. It is already quite far along, and you can do almost everything you'd ever need to, e.g. all the standard databases operations (creating, merging, deleting, backing up, rearranging), analyzing games with engines, accessing opening explorer stats for lichess DBs and a user-chosen reference DB, filtering databases by metadata, positions, position fragments, or what I call "fuzzy" positions (same piece tallies, similar pawn structures). You can spar against the Maia bot at whatever rating is useful to you, and I incorporated an opening book so it plays the exact ratings in the exact proportions for players at that rating. Lastly, you can create puzzle sets yourself or import them from lichess and use the Woodpecker Method, and it automatically tracks all your stats for you so you can see your improvement as you go!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
God Member
*****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 1813
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: What programs to start with?
Reply #2 - 06/21/26 at 01:17:54
Post Tools
I like Scid. There are some good things about ChessBase, but not worth the money, in my opinion. And I have purchased ChessBase the program four different times over the years, so I do know a little about it. Scid is a free download, so for someone who is not even sure they need a database I thinks it's a good place to start. Nothing stopping you from purchasing ChessBase at any later time, like when it is on sale.

I annotated @prousitkeen's response in light of the Scid option.

proustiskeen wrote on 06/20/26 at 16:34:17:
Bare ChessBase 
    aoc: or  https://sourceforge.net/projects/scid/
+ 30 euros to Mark Crowther at TWIC for his complete database back to 1993 
    aoc: or  https://lumbrasgigabase.com/en/
+ Stockfish 18. 
    aoc: agreed  https://stockfishchess.org/
Add Leela if your computer has a fast / modern GPU.
    aoc: another good recommendation  https://lczero.org/

Opening study: start in Lichess studies to access their statistics (find moves actually played at your level) 
    aoc: better than that, Scid has a fine tree for statistics
and then transfer pgns to Chessbase for long-term storage and access.
    aoc: start in Scid (or ChessBase) and skip the transfer step

Mygames: a database of your games with your notes.
    aoc: The most important database of all! And why not to start in lichess.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
proustiskeen
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


Hello from Omaha!

Posts: 682
Joined: 08/11/08
Re: What programs to start with?
Reply #1 - 06/20/26 at 16:34:17
Post Tools
Bare ChessBase + 30 euros to Mark Crowther at TWIC for his complete database back to 1993 + Stockfish 18. Add Leela if your computer has a fast / modern GPU.

Opening study: start in Lichess studies to access their statistics (find moves actually played at your level) and then transfer pgns to Chessbase for long-term storage and access.

Mygames: a database of your games with your notes.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 381
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
What programs to start with?
06/20/26 at 13:25:18
Post Tools
I'm just a class level patzer (1770ish peak USCF rating), who has left and returned to chess several times over the years. I used to own an old version of Fritz 20ish years ago, but that was at least two computers ago, and I'm not sure if I have the install disk around here any more. Plus, my current computer doesn't even have a CD-ROM drive.

Now that I'm getting back into the game, I'm wondering what software I should get. I'm on Windows 11. I already have the ChessPad freeware to be able to play out moves and set up positions, but that's literally all it is - a chess board on the computer.

The main thing I want is to be able to analyze my own games via engine, or occasionally plug a position in and let the engine analyze it. Chess.com has its own engine that can analyze my games that I played on that site, but I'm looking to analyze games played OTB, or possibly positions/games from books that I'm reading. It doesn't have to be the latest and greatest - as I said, I'm just a class level player trying to learn and improve, not looking for help challenging grandmasters. Anything cheap and easy (free would be nice) will do.

Also, any other recommendations for software installs of other types that I should consider? Should I consider a real database program, or will the free databases all over the internet be good enough for my purposes?
  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo