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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C30-C39 C33: The Fascinating King's Gambit (Read 300105 times)
TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #106 - 04/14/05 at 13:26:27
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Thanks for writing such a detailed and good book and for answering my questions here!


Well, you're welcome! After all, it's nice to get some feedback on the book as it often results in me learning something too! Cheesy 

Quote:
After analyzing more I found that 6...Be7 followed up by 7...g5 seems a bit more annoying than just 6...g5, especially with the possible 7. Qe2+.
The biggest issue for me is where to develop the Black Square bishop when he does 6...Be7 and 7...g5. 


7.Qe2+ does look like the simplest solution to 6...g5?! so I'll concentrate on the other similar idea. 

After 6...Be7 I think 7.d4 is the move, which is probably most likely to transpose to some other line as 7...g5 looks dodgy since it weakens the dark squares on the kingside. 8.Nc3 should be nice for white as a later g3 or even h4 could be hard to meet for black. Bc1 may awake with a vengeance! Cheesy

Generally speaking, spending a weakening pawn move to defend pawn-f4 seems a bit extravagant considering that the centre is more open here than after 3.Nf3 g5, I think you should compare with some of the main lines, e.g. Qxd5 Nc3 Qf5, which also aims at keeping Bc1 bottled up but without taking as much of a risk. 

Anyway, I doubt that Be7+g7-g5 contributes more  to black position than it detracts. There are some optimistic ideas for black, like g5-g4 Nf3-e5 f4-f3 for example, that might appear a bit wild, - but white is ahead in development and after g2-g3 the king will be safe on f2 while Bc1 has an open diagonal and white has a wide selection of possible moves and plans....

Well, I hope this was reasonably helpful!  Cheesy
  
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smartidiot
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #105 - 04/14/05 at 09:52:54
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Thanks for the help!  Glad someone else here has the book.  I recommended it to someone who plays KG also.  Maybe he bought it.  I am also trying to get another friend to get it.  He likes the King's Bishop Gambit and I am sure he will like your book.  I think he is trying to save the money to purchase it now.

Ok, back to my question.  I checked out page 77 and found 6...g5?! at the bottom of the page.  The problem is that after 7. O-O my opponent says to play 7...Be7 instead of 7...Bg7.  This allows him to castle, which keeps the pawn on g5 and makes it difficult for white to develop the QB.   After 7...O-O Should I continue with 8.b3 and trade off the Bishops?  Comparing this to the line after 7...Bg7 black seems better off in this position than after 7...Bg7 because his rook is in a better position. 

I was analyzing a bit and found that 7. Qe2+ allows white to get the pawn on g5.  Like you suggest I found that interesting and Fritz seemed to think it was good for white as well.

After analyzing more I found that 6...Be7 followed up by 7...g5 seems a bit more annoying than just 6...g5, especially with the possible 7. Qe2+.
The biggest issue for me is where to develop the Black Square bishop when he does 6...Be7 and 7...g5.
 
Thanks for writing such a detailed and good book and for answering my questions here!

Justin
  
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TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #104 - 04/13/05 at 18:19:49
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Howdy Justin,

according to my sales info, so far you're one of two people in Arizona having my book! Wink 

Actually, the sequence you inquire about can be found on page 77/78, looking at the only game so far that has gone down that road, i.e. Diaz-Philippe La Habana 1966. 

Hope that helps, otherwise you're of course welcome with a follow up question!
  
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Fernando Semprun
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #103 - 04/13/05 at 17:24:07
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Paul, thanks a lot for your suggestion, I could not check it out properly before....

It is excellent. (And even if it were not, I should have thanked you ages ago... been kind of busy)

I must be getting old and boring and I am immersed in Kindermann's Exchange book. 

So I'll keep this FKG as a scond string... now I am sharing Taljechin's initial scare about the scarecrow!

(Bottom line: I hate loosing these days to much weaker players through the double edge positions that arise in the KG... people are not succumbing to bayonet attacks as when I was young!)

Many thanks - a great suggestion!
  

Fernando Semprun
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #102 - 04/13/05 at 15:29:58
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Hello, I received the book about 3 weeks ago and love it.  It is nice to have another good book on the King's Gambit.

I am having a bit of trouble and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

after the moves:

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3. Bc4 d5 4. Bxd5 Nf6 5.Nf3 Nxd5 6. exd5 g5

A local FIDE master keeps trying to tell me that this is a new bust to the line.   

I did not find this move in the FKG so I thought I would see what you guys thought here.  Thanks.

Justin
  
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TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #101 - 04/13/05 at 05:47:36
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Well 100 replies seemed like a nice round figure, but after more than a month of silence it could be time for something new here - so I thought it could be fun to show an interesting 5 minute blitz game of mine from yesterday at playchess.  Cheesy

(TJ) (2314) - Moor (2452) [C33]
Rated game, 5m + 0s Main Playing Hall, 12.04.2005

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qh4+ 4.Kf1 Nf6 5.Nf3 Qh6 6.Nc3 Bb4 7.e5 Nh5 8.Nd5!?N A moment of inspiration. 



8...Ba5 

[8...Ng3+ 9.Kg1 Qc6 10.hxg3 Qxc4 11.Nxf4 Nc6 12.c3 looks good for white.] 

9.b4!? c6 10.bxa5 cxd5 11.Bxd5 Ng3+ 12.Kg1 Nxh1 13.Ba3! A move inspired by an old line in the Westerinen gambit, where white gives a whole rook to dominate the dark squares surrounding black's king. Since I'm only an exchange down, that might mean that I'm actually a piece up?? Cheesy 




13...Ng3 14.hxg3 fxg3 15.Qe1 (with d4 and Qb4 in mind) 

[the more positional 15.Bd6!? may also be worth considering.] 

15...Qf4 16.d4 Nc6 17.Bxc6 bxc6 

[17...dxc6!? 18.Bc1 Qg4 19.Qb4 Qd7 20.Ba3 b6 21.e6 fxe6 22.Ne5 Qc7 23.Nxc6 Bb7 24.Ne5 0-0-0 25.axb6 axb6 26.Rf1 with comp at least.] 

18.Bc1 Qg4 19.Qb4 d5 20.Ba3 Qd7 

[Here I wasted a bunch of moves with 21.Re1? Qb7 22.Qc5 Be6 23.Ng5 Qd7 24.Rb1 a6 25.Rf1 h5 26.Nxe6 Qxe6 27.Rb1 Qd7 28.Rb6 h4 29.Rxc6 Rb8 30.Bb4 Qd8 31.a3 Rb5 32.Qc3 Rxb4 33.Qxb4 and eventually won 30 moves later...]

Much better is of course: 21.e6! fxe6 22.Ne5 Qc7 23.Qc5! 




(23.Rf1 c5 24.Qb3 still seems better for white, but black might be able to survive.) 

23...Ba6 everything else loses to Rf1-f7/8. 24.Rb1! White takes time out to stop 24...0-0-0? with 25.Nxc6+- for example 25...Kd7 26.Nb8+ Rxb8 27.Qe7+ Kc8 28.Qxe6+ wins.) 

Other 24th moves by black can be met by the plan: 25.c4 Bxc4 ( 25...dxc4 26.Rf1) 26.Nxc4 dxc4 27.a6 0-0-0 28.Rb7+- 

When looking through the game afterwards, I noticed a peculiar thing - virtually all of black's moves turned out to be Fritz's recommended option! So maybe I beat Fritz 8 and not Moor? ??? Grin



Btw, Alumbrado, how did the 'sticky-back plastic' work out?  Undecided
« Last Edit: 04/14/05 at 09:54:12 by TalJechin »  
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Paul Cumbers
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #100 - 03/05/05 at 17:15:39
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Looking again at 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3 Bb6!, I had thought that 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bg4 7.Be3 d5 8.h3!? (8.e5? Ne7 intending ...Nf5 looks good for Black) was OK for White. But now 8...Bxf3! 9.Qxf3 dxe4 10.Qxe4+ Qe7 leaves White with a crippled/hollow centre. Sad

Moving on to 4.Nc3 and Fedorov v Marin, TalJechin's suggestion of 8.c3! looks like a very good answer to 7...0-0. There's no need to rush the capture on c5. I like it! Smiley

So now I agree that 4.Nc3 is superior to 4.c3. Smiley

Fernando - looking at your analysis of the Beliavsky Marques defence, how about 11.Rde1! as a possible improvement? Now a subsequent queen move will un-pin the f3-knight, and after h4 (or g3) the h1-rook will be well placed. 11.h4(?!) seems premature as it invites 11...Nh5 threatening a fork on g3, allowing time for ...f6.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #99 - 03/05/05 at 04:47:57
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Well, it wouldn't hurt to add some evaluations at the end of the lines... 

Anyway, I suppose I'd still be inclined to play Rde1/Rhe1 and Qf2 and then g3 or perhaps e5.

Quote:
6. Qe2 (forced, really) 


I'm not so sure about that anymore, how about these sample lines:

6.Nge2 g5 7.d3 Bg7 8.g3!? f3 9.Nd4 d5 (...f2+ 10.Kxf2 d5 11.Kg2 +=) 10.Nxf3 dxe4 11.dxe4 h6 (11...Nxe4 12.0-0!) 

12.Qe2 0-0 13.Bd2 (13.Nxg5?!/!?) Na6 14.e5 Ng4 15.0-0-0 Nxe5 16.Nxe5 Qxe5 17.Qxe5! Bxe5 18.Rde1 Bg7 19.h4 g4 20.Ne4 with compensation.

I'm still looking at 6...Nxe4, 7.0-0 Nc5 8.Nxf4 d5 9.d4 feels like comp though it's a bit early to say so for sure...  a piece sac on d5 at some point might not be too bad either considering the Qe7/Bf8 'development'...
  
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Fernando Semprun
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #98 - 03/04/05 at 19:11:36
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Here we go....


[Date "2005.02.28"]
[3...Nf6"]
["lesser lines"]
[ECO "C33"]

1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Nc3  (4. e5 d5) 4... c6 5. Bb3 Qe7 (5... d5 is the main line)

6. Qe2 (forced, really) 

   (6. d3 d5 7. Bxf4 dxe4 8. Nge2 exd3 9. Qxd3 Nbd7 10. O-O Nc5 11. Qg3
Nxb3 12. axb3 Be6 13. Nd4 Qc5 14. Be3 Qd6)

6... d6 7. d4 g5 {Diagram 1}

[IMG]http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.php?fen=rnb1kb1r/pp2qp1p/2pp1n2/6p1/3PPp2/1BN5/PPP1Q1PP/R1B1K1NR
[/IMG]



8. Nf3

     (8. e5 dxe5 9. dxe5 Ng4 10. h4 Nxe5 11. hxg5 Bg4 {Dekic-Beljavskij, 1998} 12.Qe4) 

     (8. h4 {Semprun} Bg4 9. Nf3 Nh5 10. Qd3 Ng3 11. Rh2 f5) 

    (8. g3 Bg4 9. Nf3 d5)

8... Bg4 9. Bd2 Nbd7 10. O-O-O O-O-O 11. h4 

(11. Rhe1 Bg7  (11... Bh6 12.
Qc4 Rhf8 13. Nd5 Qe6 14. Nxf6 Qxf6 15. Qa4 Kb8 16. Ba5 Rde8 17. Bb4 c5 18. Bc3
Qe7 19. e5 dxe5 20. Nxe5 Nxe5 21. Rxe5 Qd8)) 

(11. Qc4?? only reference in Mega 2005) 

11... Nh5 12. Qc4 f6 (
12... gxh4 13. Rde1) 

13. Rhe1 {Diagram # 2} 

[IMG]http://www.france-echecs.com/diagramme/imgboard.php?
fen=2kr1b1r/pp1nq2p/2pp1p2/6pn/2QPPpbP/1BN2N2/PPPB2P1/2KRR3 b - - 0 13
[/IMG]

(13. Qa4 Ng3 14. Rhe1 Kb8) 

This is not particularly inspiring, although it may be OK....

  

Fernando Semprun
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TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #97 - 03/04/05 at 19:09:29
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On a serious note, I believe Gallagher answered the f5 problem rather convincingly in his Winning with book.


I think it was analysed in Informator or NiC after 1992, but it may very well be bad but it's one of those lines you'll need to know...

Quote:
But if Fedorov is playing 4.Nc3, it must be best, since Fedorov is, without any trace of doubt, the leading exponent of the KG nowadays....


Que? Once a year in 2003 and 2004. I got the impression he'd moved on to 2.Bc4.

Anyway, the last ten years, the Bishop Gambit has been played by Ivanchuk, Morozevich, Adams and Short to name just a few - but no Fedorov...  Wink
  
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Fernando Semprun
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #96 - 03/04/05 at 18:46:18
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On a serious note, I believe Gallagher answered the f5 problem rather convincingly in his Winning with book.

But if Fedorov is playing 4.Nc3, it must be best, since Fedorov is, without any trace of doubt, the leading exponent of the KG nowadays....

Regards,


FS
  

Fernando Semprun
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #95 - 03/04/05 at 18:41:56
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Quote:

Playing sound developing moves like Nc3 instead is just so much easier to play, that I haven't looked much at 4.c3 since. 


Playing sound developing moves like 2.Nf3 you mean?   Cheesy

To avoid ANY confussion.... just kidding
  

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TalJechin
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #94 - 03/04/05 at 17:04:18
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Thanks for pointing out that 7...0-0, which I seem to have left out. However, I doubt this should be especially critical as white has several sound alternatives after 8.Nxc5 dxc5; especially 9.c3 seems most obvious to me. But I'll take a closer look...

Added 5th/3; 9.c3 Qd6 is slightly annoying, but the game Malmström-Ippolito, corr 1997, found a way around that, 8.c3!? Na5 9.Nxc5 dxc5 10.Bb5 transposing to Tartakower-Opocensky Baden Baden 1914.

Quote:
By the way, TalJechin - you mention your distrust of 4.c3 - is there a particular line that puts you off? Just curious. I've often thought that 4.Nc3 and 4.c3 were of equal value.


I suppose 4...Bb6 is one reason I don't like it, the main reason is probably that I got totally squashed in it by an IM many years ago, when I'd just started playing the KG. 

Playing sound developing moves like Nc3 instead is just so much easier to play, that I haven't looked much at 4.c3 since. Btw, black also has an interesting line with ...f5 sacing Rh8 for development and some scary mobile centre pawns... Undecided
« Last Edit: 03/05/05 at 05:24:33 by TalJechin »  
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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #93 - 03/04/05 at 15:47:23
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That English author is Neil McDonald. In my opinion 4...Bb6 is so annoying, that 4.Nc3 is the better move.
In Fedorov-Marin I think 9.f5 interesting. This is almost always a dangerous plan, after Black's kingside castling. But there is a lack of good practical examples.
  

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Re: The Fascinating King's Gambit
Reply #92 - 03/04/05 at 15:19:03
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4.c3 is better, just 4...Bb6 is annoying but only the late IM Talavera knew this, and I believe some English author has mentioned the move in a book with some analysis  (?)

After 4...Bb6 white has to be careful. (very)
  

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