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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: I am a typical Open games player (Read 25438 times)
lost highway
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #15 - 10/15/05 at 14:04:04
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Does anyone know the story about the Capablanca - Maroczy game I cited earlier?  (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bd6 6.O-O O-O 7.Bg5 Bg4 8.Nbd2 Nbd7 9.c3 c6 10.Qc2 Qc7 11.Rfe1 Rfe8 12.Bh4 Bh5.  Capablanca – Maroczy, Lake Hopatcong, 1926.)

Was Capablanca hung over from partying the night before?  Did he have a tennis engagement coming up soon?  Was he wearing tennis shorts?  Was he notified that his mistress had just arrived in town?  Or his wife?  I know the guy was pretty lazy, but this game is way out there.  Was he just messing with Maroczy's mind for some reason?  Anyone know what the result was?I found the rest of this "game" 
I found the rest of this nerf game.   

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1094365 ;   

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TalJechin
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #14 - 10/15/05 at 13:48:33
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In the Winawer white has some other tries too, keeping the game less closed than after 4.e5. For example Hector's favourite 4.Ne2 - which theoretically isn't feared by black, but *every time* I see him play it seems so incredibly easy to beat the french! Shocked Undecided

For example, play through yesterday's game in the Swedish highest team series, on board 1 against Lyrberg, rated 2577:

http://elitserien.schack.se/elitmalmo/live/rond1/rond1.htm

I've tried it myself in blitz a few times, without much succes, so I suppose it will take some real effort to get to know  the variation as white...
  
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Willempie
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #13 - 10/15/05 at 12:52:43
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I am not so sure if it is worth to avoid the Winawer. I play it with both colours and it can certainly get as wild as the Bg5-Najdorf. I'd suggest playing the 7 Qg4 (1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Bb4 4 e5 c5 5 a3 Bxc3 6 bxc3 Ne7 Qg4) main line. If you're lucky he'll play the lately very popular 7 .. 0-0, which is basically an invitation for an all out kingside attack. The poisoned pawn Winawer (7 .. Qc7) is complicated, but certainly doesnt give a dull or closed position. That only leaves some sidelines like 5 ..Ba5 and 6 .. Qc7 which you would have to look into. Imho they are a little less "wild-west", but are also less demanding on white.
Not sure how to avoid the dxe4 stuff, then again I dont see why you would want to avoid it. When I face it I usually avoid all exchanges (except a dark-bishop exchange) with Ng3. Theory doesnt think too highly of this move, but I never understood why white should fall in with black's plan of exchanging everything off on f6.
  

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woofwoof
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #12 - 10/15/05 at 12:20:45
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3.Nd2 avoids Winawer (YES!!) but is a bit cramping for white  & a bit slow going & dry  Tongue Tongue Tongue. Also 3...c5 is best reply for black here & gives him more freedom on Q-side than say Winawer. Play against IQP is 'petit jeu'. You are right. 

KIA can give an attack but a bit  slow moving for my liking. Faster paced & sharper  attack is 7.Qg4 line in Winawer or Albin-Chartard-Alekhine attack against 3...Nf6. The main big problem here is you need to face Winawer or face dxe4 which doesnt really simplify as you say, but gives black a more solid but passive setup. 

So if you cannot bring yourself to meet the Winawer (like me) or cannot stand playing against  very solid defenses (Burn & Rubinstein-dxe4 types), you've no other choice but KIA or exchange variation. Depressing isnt it?? Cry

But in the exchange variation, even though lacking central tension but white has a freer game compared to KIA where pieces are more closed & bunched together. KIA works as a coiled spring. So timing is needed to free the position & get pieces into action, otherwise white can get suffocated. But waiting for that 'right' moment to free the position is hard if you like quick action type of game. Trying to free at the wrong moment gives black the initiative. Its all a matter of taste. I prefer freedom in this case, even if lacking tension. So i play exchange rather than KIA.
  

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lost highway
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #11 - 10/15/05 at 11:57:26
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but how avoid dxe4 , that simplfies too much the game?

No it doesn't.  4.Nxe4 and white has plenty of good play.

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photophore
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #10 - 10/15/05 at 11:35:55
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Thanks to All!
I summarise :
Exchange variation is not my cup of tea , since it lacks an essential element :tension in the centre
Now in 3 Nc3 variation , W can't avoid Winawer , that lets Black too much initiative in the centre
Else classical with Alekhine-Chatard would be OK , or even Mc Kutcheon , but how avoid dxe4 , that simplfies too much the game?
Now , after 3 Nd2 Have W real possibilities of attacking  play , or only "petit jeu" against an isolated QP?
I think the other moves , as 3 Qe2 , or 3 d3 , are too slow
Now , if somebody can prove me that W get an attack with KiA I shall say OK
  
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lost highway
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #9 - 10/15/05 at 10:51:28
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Does anyone know the story about the Capablanca - Maroczy game I cited earlier?  (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bd6 6.O-O O-O 7.Bg5 Bg4 8.Nbd2 Nbd7 9.c3 c6 10.Qc2 Qc7 11.Rfe1 Rfe8 12.Bh4 Bh5.  Capablanca – Maroczy, Lake Hopatcong, 1926.)

Was Capablanca hung over from partying the night before?  Did he have a tennis engagement coming up soon?  Was he wearing tennis shorts?  Was he notified that his mistress had just arrived in town?  Or his wife?  I know the guy was pretty lazy, but this game is way out there.  Was he just messing with Maroczy's mind for some reason?  Anyone know what the result was?

- Lost Highway
  
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woofwoof
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #8 - 10/15/05 at 09:56:02
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Smyslov,

But if c4 is not enough....then what else is there in the exchange to make it more interesting for white??

Unless you are meaning to play 3.Nc3 (objectively best imo) & face the Winawer [Urks!Tongue, (for me anyway)], or 3....Nf6 - Classical, Albin-Chartard, Macutcheon & Rubinstein as possible variations coming from that 1 reply.
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #7 - 10/15/05 at 09:17:38
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Lost, 

Dom recommended an early c4 in the Exchange French, and that does contain some venom.  It doesn't do enough for me, but that may be a matter of taste.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #6 - 10/15/05 at 09:16:23
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Dom et photophore, 

La ligne: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 n'est pas si grande pour un jouer qui aiment Najdorf avec Fg5.

Pour moi, Le Nimzovich (3.e5) ou Le (ou <<la>>?) Classical avec 3.Nc3 est meilleur.  On peut jouer comme les autres qui fait le Fg5 Najdorf.  Je croix que c'est plus en le style des jouers.

(I love to read French, but haven't written it in twenty years and there's nobody around to chat with in French, so please correct my grammar!)
  
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lost highway
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #5 - 10/15/05 at 08:09:12
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The exchange French is always good for a laugh.  Here’s one of the classic laughs:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Bd3 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bd6 6.O-O O-O 7.Bg5 Bg4 8.Nbd2 Nbd7 9.c3 c6 10.Qc2 Qc7 11.Rfe1 Rfe8 12.Bh4 Bh5.  Capablanca – Maroczy, Lake Hopatcong, 1926. 

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #4 - 10/15/05 at 06:38:48
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@castlerock: 
This is probably an issue of playing strength: stronger players tend to be more flexible, so the objective merits of moves becomes more important than trying to fit one's own subjective tastes. Consequently, 3. ed5 will prove less of an annoyance to more advanced players, who will certainly be glad to equalise on move 3. Smiley 

In any case, the exchange french can lead to sharp opposite castling races, so its not as though its dull in the first place!   
 




  
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castlerock
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #3 - 10/15/05 at 04:59:50
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Either that, or they play the French themselves and can't wait to face more exchange french Wink


Can't say that. Most French players I know accept Exchange variation as a price to be paid for playing French Wink

They get used to it. I'm not so sure they like it.
  

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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #2 - 10/15/05 at 04:44:04
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3. Nd2 is very agreeable to many 1. e4 players i know and will be my recommendation. 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 is even better, though the Winawer is too blocked for some, but even there White has plenty of attack.

Don't believe those who argue for 3. ed5. The exchange leads to an open game but comes at a huge cost of conceding complete equality to Black. Those who say the exchange is a deadly weapon belongs to the same type of people who will argue that the KIA is good because Fischer played it Grin

Either that, or they play the French themselves and can't wait to face more exchange french Wink
  
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dom
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Re: I am a typical Open games player
Reply #1 - 10/15/05 at 04:15:26
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(Sorry, but I'll practice french language)

Bonjour et bienvenue sur le forum de Chesspublishing.

Pour les lignes dites ouvertes, peut-etre le plus agreable est de jouer comme a la periode romantique du grand Morphy.

Commencer donc par la variante d'echange (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5... et ne pas hesiter a faire un coup comme c4 qui ouvre encore un peu plus les lignes) avec un jeu assez simple. 

Ceci reduit aussi un peu les repliques des Noirs et cela peut etre joue avec differents ordre de coups (1.e4 e6 2.Cf3 d5 3.exd5 etc).

  

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